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Matt. 5:25

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Matt. 5:25

Postby vir litterarum » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:12 pm

ἰÍ￾σθι εὐνοω̃ν τω̨̃ ἀντιδίκω̨ σου ταχὺ ἑÍ￾ως ὁÍ￾του εἰ̃ μετ' αὐτου̃ ἐν τη̨̃ ὁδω̨̃ μήποτέ σε παÏ￾αδω̨̃ ὁ ἀντίδικος τω̨̃ κÏ￾ιτη̨̃ καὶ ὁ κÏ￾ιτὴς τω̨̃ ὑπηÏ￾έτη̨ καὶ εἰς φυλακὴν βληθήση̨
Matt. 5:25

How is "otou" functioning within this verse? I have looked at several translations, and none of them translate it?
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Postby modus.irrealis » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:04 pm

I'd say that εως here is being used as a preposition and οτου refers back to some implied noun meaning "time" or something, so literally εως οτου is something like "[in the time] during which" but it's pretty much equivalent as a whole to "while."
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Postby Bert » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:23 pm

I agree. The word is translated but together with ἕως. Until whichever (time) -> as long as, while.
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Postby vir litterarum » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:52 pm

So it would be a genitive of time at which the clause occurs?
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Postby Bert » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:32 am

vir litterarum wrote:So it would be a genitive of time at which the clause occurs?

No, it is genitive because here ἕως is a preposition that takes its object in the genitive.
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Postby vir litterarum » Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:11 am

Are you sure "ews" can be used as a preposition? I looked my middle LSJ and saw no mention of it.
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Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:47 pm

Bert wrote:Until whichever (time) -> as long as, while.


I translated εως as "during" because the "until which time" --> "while" development makes no sense to me -- do you see how it could happen?

vir litterarum wrote:Are you sure "ews" can be used as a preposition? I looked my middle LSJ and saw no mention of it.


It can be a preposition in Koine Greek. If you search the New Testament (a convenient place is http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/gnt/search.html), you'll find lots of examples, e.g. Matt 2:15, και ην εκει εως της τελευτης ΗÏ￾ωδου.
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Postby Bert » Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:19 pm

modus.irrealis wrote:
Bert wrote:Until whichever (time) -> as long as, while.


I translated εως as "during" because the "until which time" --> "while" development makes no sense to me -- do you see how it could happen?
Yes you are right. In this context, during or while is the correct meaning. With the ὅτου I see it as during whichever (time.) In English you would not need the "which ever time" part. I put it in to try to account for every word. It has become a bit of a stock phrace.
modus.irrealis wrote:
vir litterarum wrote:Are you sure "ews" can be used as a preposition? I looked my middle LSJ and saw no mention of it.




It can be a preposition in Koine Greek. If you search the New Testament (a convenient place is http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/gnt/search.html), you'll find lots of examples, e.g. Matt 2:15, και ην εκει εως της τελευτης ΗÏ￾ωδου.

According to BDAG it started to be used as a preposition in the 4th century BC. I looked it up in a small Modern Greek dictionary as well. It still means -as far as- or -until- , but it did not say if it is still used as an adverb. That seems to be how things develop; Adverbs slowly change to prepositions. I learned some koine first and now I am learning Homeric. It took a bit of getting used to to find a "preposition" without an object.
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