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'te' line 13 of Iiliad

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'te' line 13 of Iiliad

Postby megas_yiannakis » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:58 am

megas_yiannakis
 

Postby IreneY » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:04 am

Hint: "τε" links to words of the same kind :D
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Postby megas_yiannakis » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:43 am

hmmm so is a rough translation:

desiring to free both his daughter, and great ransoms.

is the t' in >t' apereisi' apoina < a te or a ta?

because if it is a 'ta' then would a good translation be:

Desirind to free his daughter, and bringing those great transoms....

OR should i take 'te' with the next line to give:

"desiring to free his daughter, bringing both great ransoms and holding the wreaths of Apollo upon a golden sceptre..."
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Postby spiphany » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:23 pm

IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
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Postby megas_yiannakis » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:59 am

ahhh thank you that makes much more sence...

i started with attic for a while before discovering pharr's book and the advantages it would give me by starting with homeric... i only got to about chapter 5 in my attic book so it wasnt much of a big change but if im not wrong... in attic 'te' comes before the words it connects that must have been the source of my confusion... or mayb the use of "kai... kai..." in modern greek...

oh well thanks for helping me with that :D

:D sas euharisto!
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Postby Bert » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:34 am

megas_yiannakis wrote: but if im not wrong... in attic 'te' comes before the words it connects that must have been the source of my confusion... or mayb the use of "kai... kai..." in modern greek...

oh well thanks for helping me with that :D

:D sas euharisto!

I seem to remember that I read somewhere that 'te' can come before the word to which it belongs but I have not run across it.
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Postby megas_yiannakis » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:05 am

megas_yiannakis
 

Postby Bert » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:52 am

My (gen.)daughter is a daughter to me.(dat.)
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Postby Kasper » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:22 am

Are you saying it's a dative of possession Bert? I thought it a simple dative, i.e. "release my/the child to me"
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Postby megas_yiannakis » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:42 am

how is εμοί dative at all in the first place?

if it was dative wouldnt it be εμωι (with the iota subscript?)... pharr doesnt give omicron + iota as a dative singular ending in the book... or have i looked wrong?
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Postby megas_yiannakis » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:51 am

wait dont mind me... i just looked it up as a form of 'εγώ' which i didnt think to look at as it hasn't been introduced to me yet in pharr... (i thought it was a form of 'έμός'... which is kind of annoying as there is no foot-note talking about it... oh well it makes sence now :D

thanks everyone! :wink:
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Postby IreneY » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:27 am

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Postby Bert » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:17 pm

Kasper wrote:Are you saying it's a dative of possession Bert? I thought it a simple dative, i.e. "release my/the child to me"

That is what I meant but I guess there is a case to be made for a dative of advantage (or something like that.)
I like to see it belonging to παῖδα though. That puts the emphasis more solidly on his daughter rather than on him. "Release my daughter, my dear one...." rather than "Release my daughter to me, my dear one...."
In the first case he is doing the begging on behalf of his daughter but in the second case he'd be mentioning himself as beneficiary as well.
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Postby Bert » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:22 pm

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