Textkit Logo

Tutorial/summary Request

Textkit is a learning community- introduce yourself here. Use the Open Board to introduce yourself, chat about off-topic issues and get to know each other.

Moderators: thesaurus, Jeff Tirey

Tutorial/summary Request

Postby benissimus » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:46 pm

I am curious to know exactly how Latin poetry (and Greek, though I can't read it yet) actually are organized and function. I have a lot of comments (especially by Elucubrator) about the length patterns for words and such, and the different arrangements (i.e. hendecasyllabic, dactylic), but I am still incredibly vague on what it actually is. So, could someone please either direct me to a site or article (or write a tutorial) so I can understand this better?<br /><br /><br />[face=SPIonic][size=18=9]<br />Not sure if this belongs in this forum, but I didn't want to limit it to just Latin.[/face][/size]
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re:Tutorial/summary Request

Postby annis » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:57 pm

This is for Greek: http://www.aoidoi.org/articles/meter/intro.php<br /><br />Rather than rhyme, or patterns of stress, Greek poetry is based on patters of long and short syllables. <br /><br />If you google on "dactylic hexameter" you should get several good pages explaining how that works in Latin.<br />
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Re:Tutorial/summary Request

Postby Milito » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:31 am

Bennett has a section on poetic grammar, at least, in his "New Latin Grammar" (and, I presume, in his just plain "Latin Grammar" on Textkit). How thoroughly or well it goes into the subject, I can't tell you, as I haven't had opportunity or inclination to dig into it that deeply, I'm afraid..... :P<br /><br />Kilmeny
phpbb
Milito
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:01 pm
Location: Various Points in Canada

Re:Tutorial/summary Request

Postby Keesa » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:54 pm

One of the Greek tutorials-it may still be the only one-had something to say about Greek poetry/meter, I think. I read it, but it was over my head, so I'm not really sure. ;D<br /><br />Keesa
phpbb
Keesa
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:59 pm

Re:Tutorial/summary Request

Postby vinobrien » Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:44 pm

I still have a problem with this. I've read the texts and I can accurately but mechanically scan a line in Latin or Greek but, to be honest, I just can't feel the rhythm. <br /><br />I have a degree in English Literature and I play the drums (no jokes please) and have no problem with the stressed/ qualitative rhythms of English of whatever period, but the quantitative rhythms of Latin and Greek leave me feeling deaf. :( <br /><br />I have probably raised this in an earlier thread (but life is short): my Greek (by origin) Greek teacher approached lines mechanically but my Latin teacher over the summer, who was Japanese(!) said she could feel the rhythm because her language had long and short syllables (again !). :o <br /><br />Does anyone else have the same problem or am I just not hearing the beat? ???
phpbb
User avatar
vinobrien
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 9:05 am
Location: Maidenhead, England

Re:Tutorial/summary Request

Postby Emma_85 » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:44 pm

The thing with Latin poetry is that it's all long and short syllables. There are certain rules you can learn (and should be learning if you want to get it right), for the beginning I would suggest you take a pencil and go through each line and work out which syllables are short and which ones long, and then read the poem aloud. After doing that a few times you should be able to read the easier lines without doing all that, but IMHO it just takes a lot of practise. The more poetry you read (and try to read properly) the better you get at it.<br />I wasn't very good at ready Latin poetry at first, but after 3 years of practice...well I'm not too bad now... :P
phpbb
User avatar
Emma_85
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: London

Re:Tutorial/summary Request

Postby benissimus » Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:10 pm

Maybe I'm not completely tone-deaf... I can see the rhythm in the "Non amo te, Sabidi..." poem, but that's only because I knew the tune of the English version. :-\
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re:Tutorial/summary Request

Postby annis » Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:20 pm

[quote author=vinobrien link=board=6;threadid=590;start=0#5544 date=1063032298]<br />Does anyone else have the same problem or am I just not hearing the beat? ???<br />[/quote]<br /><br />What text are you using for practice? The hexameter and the pentameter can change so much that it's hard to get a feel for these.<br /><br />Start with something in an aeolic meter. Simple Catullus or Horace for Latin would do. Some Sappho for Greek. Anacreontics, though often trite, have a very recognizable meter.<br /><br />I will make bold to offer my own web site: http://www.aoidoi.org/texts/sappho/sap-2.php has a very short bit of Sappho - four lines - in a fixed aeolic meter. It is a charming little poem, too. It might even be complete.<br /><br />Once you can handle these meters which change little from line to line you can move on to the hexameter, which changes a lot.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Re:Tutorial/summary Request

Postby vinobrien » Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:28 am

Thanks for that, William, Anacreon I have always found the easiest to hear, but I suspect that is because I am substituting a qualitative for a quantitative metre when I read. trying to make that substitution with Virgil or Homer tends to be unsuccessful very quickly. I will do as you suggest.
phpbb
User avatar
vinobrien
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 9:05 am
Location: Maidenhead, England


Return to Open Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], dimitrios0419, Google Adsense [Bot] and 28 guests