megas_yiannakis wrote: i cannot believe that an educated person learning classical languages can even show a slight ignorant beliefe in the idea that Alexander the Great was Macedonian and not greek. this bothers me greatly. anybody who knows anything about history knows that the Macedonians (makednos=high-landers/tall people) were just as greek as the spartans and athenians, not only culturally, but also in the way they thought and what they strove to do.
It was a matter of classification. When people talk about Greek civilization, they usually refer to Attic civilization - since it was the Attic Golden Age that is preserved most today, and it was the Attic influence that Rome primarily took up (though other Hellenic groups certainly gave their influence).
YES the romans conquered greece... but then the greeks tamed the lion. The Romans always looked to the greeks as a more cultured and educated people.
Hardly. The Romans hated the Greeks - held them as slaves. In the later Republic, the odium Catonis for Greek civilization fell aside to the amor Scipionis. Remember that Cato even forbade the learning of Greek, and his grandson, who bothered to learn it, was no fan either.
And thinking of Rome again, Rome divided up "Greece" into two parts - Macedonia, which they made a province, and Greece, with whom they made treaties and promised protection instead of making a province, though they were under the jurisdiction of the Macedonian governor.
plus it is obsered to think that a people is more 'cultured' than another by the fact that they 'conquered' them, it is infact implying the opposite.
obsered? So you think that the Gauls were more cultured than the Romans? How quaint.
Greek culture is minimal?... cough... the thought of this idea makes my hair rise its so wiered. I think this is a case of that greek culture has become SO fundamental in western culture in general that one cannot easily pick it out and so 'look thats greek!'. If anyone lives in a democratic country, they are experiencing GREEK CULTURE. If someone is at all christian, they are experiencing GREEK CULTURE (considering the way greek minds developed the christian religion). If someone decides to go and learn maths, physics or even chemistry (atomos), they are experiencing GREEK CULTURE. If someone wishes to learn philosophy, they are in every way experiencing GREEK CULTURE.
Are you kidding me? Greek took so much learning from the Babylonians, by your very analogy all the Greeks were actually experiencing BABYLONIAN CULTURE
. Christianity formed first in Judaea, therefore if anyone at all is Christian, then they're experiencing JUDAEAN CULTURE
. And for someone who is the watchdog of Greek culture, I'm surprised that he calls chemistry atomos.
The whole roman culture is based heavily upon the greek. Many "Roman ideas" are actually greek, and people go their whole lives never knowing this.
Which Roman ideas are actually Greek? I can name you plenty, but let's see what you come up with. Consuls, for instance, are Roman - the Roman election system (which was Democratic) was not Greek. Amphitheatres were Roman, and thus the circuses inside were Roman as well (actually, Etruscan, but not Greek). The toga was Roman, the idea of pietas was Roman, satire was Roman... The above are some of the defining characteristics of Romanitas - sine Graecis.
i agree that it is not at all practical to say a culture 'needs' greek, or that it would even be an advantage. One thing i can agree on and say though is that western culture was created in Athens. <<< this sentence itself sums up exactly how fundemental GREEK CULTURE is to Westerners.
Hardly. By the time Christianity was advent, Alexandria replaced Athens as the center of Greek culture. There was no democracy in early Medieval periods - much of Western culture was more heavily influenced by Germanic (who moved into Gaul), Norse, and the dying Latin influence than the Byzantine, and only later was Aristotle rediscovered. True Plato played his part, but what a horrible part he played! The threw off the critical inquiry of Socrates and opted for the theory of God from Plato! If anything, that part of Greek civilization has hurt the Western world more than it has helped. We waited for Galileo to refute Aristotle's ignorance.
if what was implied was saying that 'modern greek' culture today is minimal, then again without trying to be mean or overly nationalistic : what does one expect from a country that has been through that much? Modern Greece in my mind is completely synonymous with ancient greece, culture and language. although it might be.... cough minimal that has no bearing on how rich the culture itslef is.
What does this have to do with the tea in China?