D'Ooge group

[Carola]

I seem to have had a problem sending out emails to the D'Ooge group mailing list, also I am not sure if anyone is still working their way through the book. If not, I might get back onto the job of checking the new key. This could run for the 1st 30 chapters of D'Ooge and could be used as a "beginners course". I have been adding notes as I do the answers so these will also be part of the key.
The last few weeks have been a bit muddled as we returned from our holidays only to have a death in the family. So my attention has been elsewhere for the last few weeks.
Now I want to get back to my studies and the D'Ooge key, so any comments & ideas would be most welcome.

[William]

The last few weeks have been a bit muddled as we returned from our holidays only to have a death in the family. So my attention has been elsewhere for the last few weeks.

My sympathies and condolences. God bless.

WB

[Interaxus]

Hi,

I have never actually registered as a D’Ooge ‘member’ but have merely dropped in from time to time, so perhaps I should hold my peace. However …

Jeff states that no key was produced for Latin for Beginners (1909/1911) because it was a classroom text That may or may not be the case, but for Elements of Latin, a slightly later work by Mr D’Ooge (1921) – ‘not a revision of “Latin for Beginnersâ€￾ but … an entirely new book’, a key exists. I bought it on the Web (+ the book) about a year ago.

I realize that my proposal may sound like a non-starter to ‘the regulars’ since so much effort has already been expended on the earlier work, but might it not be possible to include Elements of Latin in the Textkit arsenal – i.e. the book (that includes exercises and reading selections) along with the original publisher-approved translation key?

Just a thought.

Another, more sombre, thought:

I recently bought a glossy paperback entitled with typical 21st-century pizazz, “Latin – Super Review – All You Need To Know!â€￾. The author is given as Benjamin L. D’ooge, Ph.D. and a certain Carl Fuchs, ‘Language Program Director’, is also mentioned on the title page. It says Year 2003 Printing and Copyright @ 2001 by Research & Education Association.

Instead of an introduction, there is a 2-page blurb by ‘Dr. Max. Fogiel, Director Research & Education Association’ entitled ‘WHAT THIS SuperReview WILL DO FOR YOU.

From the Contents page to the end of the book (except for the final advert page - ‘Please send me more information about your LANGUAGE Essential books, etc, etc’), the book is identical to my copy of Elements of Latin published in 1921. The only difference is the whiteness of their paper compared to the slightly yellowed pages of my 1921 edition. In the 2001 @ version, there is absolutely no acknowledgement of the original source edition.

I have been taught by the American media to look down on the Chinese copyright bandits. Can it really be so simple for American bandits to perpetrate theft of intellectual property à la Chinois? Does this so-called ‘Copyright @ 2001’ prevent other parties like Textkit from using the original 1921 materials, because (like Web domain names) some charlatan has staked a ‘prior claim’ (kidnapped the rights)?

Who is Jeff? What's his take on this?

Cheers,
Int

[cdm2003]

Does this so-called ‘Copyright @ 2001’ prevent other parties like Textkit from using the original 1921 materials, because (like Web domain names) some charlatan has staked a ‘prior claim’ (kidnapped the rights)?

The short answer is "no." Once that copyright has expired, it's expired for good and cannot be resurrected. Now, their advert copy and any translations they have done (if any) that are not in the original work would be covered in the new copyright statement, but they can't reclaim the expired copyright on the original materials.

Chris

[tjnor]

The last few weeks have been a bit muddled as we returned from our holidays only to have a death in the family. So my attention has been elsewhere for the last few weeks.

Carola, I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I want to thank you for all the work you have put into the D'Ooge group.

I am not sure if anyone is still working their way through the book.

I believe I am the last remaining member of the "Incredibly Shrinking D'Ooge Group." It is ironic that everyone else has dropped out, since this group (with its weekly deadlines) has finally provided me with the discipline I have needed to stick with the lessons.

Maintaining the group must be a lot of work-especially for only one group member. If you'd care to instruct me, perhaps I could continue putting the lessons on the greekgeek site. This would help me keep going and would perhaps be beneficial to others working on their own. Would this be acceptable to Paul?

Please let me know, since for me the D'Ooge group has been a lifeline to the sort of intellectual endeavor I find necessary for a full life. A dear, (now departed) friend of mine once asked out loud, if anyone in the West can be considered truly educated without knowing Latin?" I think she may have been right.

Tim

[Interaxus]

Hi cdm2003,

The short answer is "no." Once that copyright has expired, it's expired for good and cannot be resurrected.

We’ll, I’m glad to hear that.

However, since the first d’Ooge group has faded into the forest dim, a second d’Ooge group is hardly likely to have much appeal EVEN IF a complete key to all exercises and texts is available.

Ave atque vale, Mr d'Ooge.

Int

[antianira]

I believe I am the last remaining member of the "Incredibly Shrinking D'Ooge Group." It is ironic that everyone else has dropped out, since this group (with its weekly deadlines) has finally provided me with the discipline I have needed to stick with the lessons.

Maintaining the group must be a lot of work-especially for only one group member. If you'd care to instruct me, perhaps I could continue putting the lessons on the greekgeek site. This would help me keep going and would perhaps be beneficial to others working on their own.

No, no, I'm still here. But due to moving cross country, I'm afraid I missed a few weeks. I'm now trying to catch up. I was kind of wondering how much work it is to post the questions, since there is not much of a group left. I wouldn't mind taking turns posting lessons, if this could be done. Technically, I finished the book earlier this year (around the time the group started) but I've been having such a hard time moving on to regular texts that I find the review quite helpful.

[Carola]

Do you want me to restart the answers from this weekend (from the point we finished)? I don't mind and now can turn my mind back to more of this work. I have also got to do some editing on the new key (with extra notes). It keeps my Latin from getting "rusty".
Perhaps this time I will make allowances in the schedule for breaks when I am having exams etc, that way I don't get too overwhelmed.

[tjnor]

Carola wrote: Do you want me to restart the answers from this weekend (from the point we finished)?

Carola, this would be great. I have completed all the posted lessons (up to 152B) and I am ready for more. I know you have a lot of committments, so if there is anything I can do to help, I am willing to do so. This would allow me to help contribute to the Textkit community.

Tim

[Carola]

I have now sent out an email with a schedule for the next 2 weeks and am preparing the lessons etc. At the moment I am probably OK but if I run into problems I will certainly take up any offers of help! As I am now catching up with my university work as things settle down at home I have some spare time.

[Socrates the Cyborg]

Hello. Because a professor has told me it would be better to learn latin first and ancient greek after that I have started working on the D'Ooge text. I am a full time student just starting out with the latin in my spare time but I am interested enough to see if there are any others that would want to accompany me. From reading the posts here that doesn't seem too likely but I thought I would throw it out there anyway.

[Perpetua]

Hello. I am also interested in learning Latin in my spare time and have downloaded D'Ooge. I am not certain I can do this by myself. Well, ok, I lie. After taking a brief look at the text I am sure I cannot do this by myself. Are there others out there who are just at the beginning like me?

[Socrates the Cyborg]

I don't know how much we could do to help eachother with just the two of us. I posted a question about the key and got very prompt help so it seems there will be support from the advanced speakers if we have questions or problems. Other than that I have gotten through lesson 10 basically. Good luck.

[Socrates the Cyborg]

I've picked up a copy of Wheelock's 6th edition so I am using that one right now. They seem to cover the material in a similar order though of course the vocab is different. I have learned from past experience with self teaching that it is often quite good for me to use multiple text books. So I will probably keep looking at D'ooge and hopefully Ceasar sometime in the not too distant future. So if anyone is still interested in having a partner or group member for D'ooge, I'm still interested. Thanks.

[Timotheus]

I too would be interested.

one week to each lesson.

[Socrates the Cyborg]

I too would be interested.

one week to each lesson.

I'm still here, and I'm still interested.

[Andrus]

Hi all,

Socrates and any one else that is interested please see the post:

http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... php?t=6518

Best regards,

Andrus

[Mad Jack]

Jeff states that no key was produced for Latin for Beginners (1909/1911) because it was a classroom text That may or may not be the case, but for Elements of Latin, a slightly later work by Mr D’Ooge (1921) – ‘not a revision of “Latin for Beginnersâ€￾ but … an entirely new book’, a key exists. I bought it on the Web (+ the book) about a year ago.

I have an original 1921 copy of that book sitting on my desk as I type this. I also have two Latin textbooks from the 1930's. The Elements of Latin isn't in too bad a shape (it had to be tapped up, no mistake about that, but only a few pages required major surgery) and has every page there. The 1930's Latin textbooks didn't far half so well. I've yet to restore them (they were mauled by successive generations of high school students, I believe), and cannot claim for certain that all the pages are there. I am desperately seeking a key for both. I did a Google search and found Interaxus' post, after which I returned to this community (I signed up in 2005, but never posted, as the community seemed to be a dying one) to inquire as to if he could ship me a photocopy of the key.

And so now I ask, from the bottom of my heart, could you please let me have that key? I have nothing I can give you in return but gratitude and friendship, but for some, that is enough.

[edonnelly]

Couldn't find a key, but anyone wanting a pdf of D'Ooge's Elements of Latin can get it from G'Oogle:

Elements of Latin

The scan quality looks excellent (which is not always true of these).


There are a few other downloadables for you D'Ooge lovers:

Second Year Latin
Latin Composition for Secondary Schools
De particularum copulativarum apud Caesarem
Caesar's Gallic war: (Allen and Greenough's edition)
Colloquia latina: Adapted to the Beginners' Books of Jones, Leighton, and Collar and Daniell


There are also two that you can read online, but cannot download as pdfs, for some reason:

Cicero, select orations
Selections from Urbis Romae Viri Inlustres

[ingrid70]

Not downloadable outside the US, I'm afraid.

Ingrid

[edonnelly]

Have we tried this before:

Direct Link to pdf

I doubt it would be that simple, but worth a shot. You could also try to use Google through a US proxy. I assume they're worried about copyright violations, and it's easier to just exclude all non-US IPs rather than sort through other countries' copyright laws.

[ingrid70]

Unfortunately, it's not that simple indeed; I get a '404 not found' error:

Not Found
The requested URL /books/pdf/Elements_of_Latin.pdf?id=FoQXAAAAIAAJ&output=pdf&sig=H2lB7st03RPyxgJGMCBZgkd6qhs was not found on this server.

Thanks for trying though!

The stupid thing is, that there are many books that were published even later, by the same companies etc. that are available for download here. There's no logic as to what is blocked.

Ingrid

[Mad Jack]

I already have the book. What I need is the key. Does the member who claimed to have this key even visit these forums anymore? Does the administrator, who claims he has a photocopy of the key? I tried contacting the Textkit team about this and received no reply. Sorry if I sound pushy, I'm just really anxious to get my hands on that key. Having two Latin books that I can draw from instead of one would be an invaluable asset to my ability to learn this language.

[tjnor]

I just ordered a copy of Greenough and D'Ooge's Second Year Latin from AbeBooks. The copy I received is a beautiful example of early textbook production. It has an embossed leather spine and 3/4 cloth boards. This book, from 1899, is in great condition, just a few bumped cover corners and some leather flaking.

The interior production is very impressive, especially the illustrations (you can see these on Textkit's online version). This edition has both sections of the text, not just the Caesar. I also picked up a contemporaneous compostion book geared to this edition. This should help me some, since there is no answer key for the main text. The composition book gives tips on syntax, etc.

This title cost me less than many modern Latin textbooks.

tjnor

[Interaxus]

Hi Mad Jack,

Just noticed your urgent plea. Sorry to keep you waiting! This is the story so far:

I mailed Jeff a set of photocopies of the Key to D'Ooge's Elements of Latin last September and he confirmed their arrival in a pm (Sept 22 2006). Said he would soon try to get hold of the textbook and get to work.

Later I sent Jeff photocopies of the Key to Bennett's New Latin Composition, but haven't heard from him since then.

This spring I discovered another site called Latinstudy - http://www.quasillum.com/study/latinstudy.php - and noticed that two guys were working their way through Bennett's New Latin Composition. So I offered my Key to them and sent off a lot of Paint Shop Pro images to one of them, who collated them and published them on his site - and kindly gave me permission to pass on the link to Textkit members (you'll find it in Textkit's Outside Links of Interest).

Perhaps some Textkitten who knows Jeff can find out if plans to publish D'Ooge's Elements of Latin + Key at Textkit have been scrapped. If so, we'll have to think of another way of getting a copy of the key to you.

Cheers,
Int