John 1:15-18

[RKBentley]

(15)’Ιωάννης μαÏ￾Ï„Ï…Ï￾ει̃ πεÏ￾ὶ αὐτου̃ καὶ κέκÏ￾αγεν λέγων οὑ̃τος ἠ̃ν ὃν εἰ̃πον ὁ ὀπίσω μου ἐÏ￾χόμενος ἐÍ￾μπÏ￾οσθέν μου γέγονεν ὁÍ￾τι Ï€Ï￾ω̃τός μου ἠ̃ν
(16) ὁÍ￾τι ἐκ του̃ πληÏ￾ώματος αὐτου̃ ἡμει̃ς πάντες ἐλάβομεν καὶ χάÏ￾ιν ἀντὶ χάÏ￾ιτος
(17) ὁÍ￾τι ὁ νόμος διὰ Μωϋσέως ἐδόθη ἡ χάÏ￾ις καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια διὰ ’Ιησου̃ ΧÏ￾ιστου̃ ἐγένετο
(18) θεòν οὐδεὶς ἑώÏ￾ακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς θεòς ὁ ὢν εἰς τòν κόλπον του̃ πατÏ￾òς ἐκει̃νος ἐξηγήσατο

My question concerns the ὁÍ￾τι at the beginning of verses 16 & 17. Do they mark the beginning (or continuation) of the discourse of John beginning in verse 15? Or does his discourse end in verse 15 and each subsequent verse should begin with 'Because'?

I hope I'm phrasing my question correctly. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

God Bless!!
RKBentley

[IreneY]

Hello RKBentley. I just checked and the Greek Orthodox Church's site, has ΚΑΙ in place of ΟΤΙ in the beginning of verse 16. It seems it's not the only one

(Check this site).

Other than that, I'm afraid I am not quite sure what you mean (but then it's not long since I woke up)

[RKBentley]

Thank you, Irene, for your post. Very good link. I was afraid I had not phrased my question very well.

I know that ὁÍ￾τι can be translated 'that' or 'because' or it can introduce a direct quote and not be translated. In John 1:15, the apostle John is quoting John the Baptist. Where exactly does John the Baptist's quote end?

Let me show it in English. Is it:

John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, "This was he of whom I spake, 'He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.'" [end of quote] ?

or does it continue...

16) "From His abundance we have all received and grace for grace."
17) "The law was given through Moses: grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." ?

Who's speaking in 16-18? Is it John the Baptist or the apostle John? If it's John B, the ὁÍ￾τι could introduce his quote. If it's the apostle, I guess ὁÍ￾τι should be translated (and, because, or something).

God Bless!!
RKBentley

[Kopio]

I know that ὁÍ￾τι can be translated 'that' or 'because' or it can introduce a direct quote and not be translated. In John 1:15, the apostle John is quoting John the Baptist. Where exactly does John the Baptist's quote end?

John the Baptist's quote ends in verse 15. The Apostle clearly introduces JB's quote with λεγων.

The Byzantine Text has και starting in vs. 16, which could suggest the quote continues, but I don't think that is the case because of context.

Who's speaking in 16-18? Is it John the Baptist or the apostle John? If it's John B, the ὁÍ￾τι could introduce his quote. If it's the apostle, I guess ὁÍ￾τι should be translated (and, because, or something).

I would say two things must be kept in mind to resolve the question. 1) The á½￾τι that occurs in verses 16 and 17, and also 2) the didactic nature of John Chapter 1. John starts the book out as a Christological treatise. He has already pointed out that 1) Jesus is God (Jn 1:1), 2) Creator (Jn. 1:3) 3) that He is the "light" (Jn. 1:9), 4) that through him we become adopted into God's family (Jn. 1:12-14), and finally that very God became ver man (Jn. 1:14). In the next few verses John expands his discussion about Christ to show that He has provided us with the means of grace and supplanted the Mosaic Law.

John Chapter 1 is the most interesting Chapter in the book IMHO. John lays all of his theology out in the first chapter, and the threads of this theology run through the rest of his Book. John also almost always introduces a quote with á½￾τι PLUS a verbfor speaking (usually λεγω) when he is making a quote.

Hope this helps answer the question. Sometimes, the issues (such as this one) cannot be soley addressed by the Greek context.

[IreneY]

Well, Kopio's reply is as clear as it gets Just two notes :
the KAI of the Byzantine tradition doesn't necessarily make the following verses part of the quote as I see it.
If you look at verse 19
19 Καὶ αὕτη á¼￾στὶν ἡ μαÏ￾Ï„Ï…Ï￾ία τοῦ Ἰωάννου, ὅτε ἀπέστειλαν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι á¼￾ξ ἹεÏ￾οσολύμων ἱεÏ￾εῖς καὶ Λευίτας ἵνα á¼￾Ï￾ωτήσωσιν αá½￾τόν· Σὺ Ï„á½·Ï‚ εἶ;
I think it is clear that the previous quote finished, John (the apostle) said something (16-18 ) and then he quotes John (the Baptist) again.

[Kopio]

Well, Kopio's reply is as clear as it gets

Coming from a native Greek speaker, I will take that as a HUGE compliment. That really made my day