Iliad B:445

Are you reading Homeric Greek? Whether you are a total beginner or an advanced Homerist, here you can meet kindred spirits. Besides Homer, use this board for all things early Greek poetry.
Post Reply
Bert
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Iliad B:445

Post by Bert »

445-οἱ δ' ἀμφ' Ἀτ?εΐωνα διοτ?εφέες βασιλῆες
The commentaries say that this means; But the son of Atreus and those around him.....
I am willing to believe it but I don't understand it.
To me it seems to read; But those around the son of Atreus....
Can someone please explain this construction to me?
Thank you.

perispomenon
Textkit Fan
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Mijdrecht
Contact:

Post by perispomenon »

Hi Bert,

I translated it exactly as you did. Which commentary states it should be 'But the son of Atreus and those around him'?

Bert
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Post by Bert »

perispomenon wrote:Hi Bert,

I translated it exactly as you did. Which commentary states it should be 'But the son of Atreus and those around him'?
M.M. Willcock and James R. Boise.
Boise does ask what the force of this construction is, but the book must be meant for classroom use because it does not give an answer.

Paul
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Post by Paul »

Hi Bert,

The commentators are trying to get across that the preposition here means to include Agamemnon, e.g., "but those Zeus-nourished kings around (and including) Agamemnon."

See Cunliffe's discussion of ἀμφί

Cordially,

Paul

Bert
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Post by Bert »

Thanks Paul.
I should not assume easily that I know what a word means but should read the lexicon entry.
It seems seems strange that one preposition can mean something like that.
Like I told one of the Pharr-c-ers; Prepositions are both fascinating and frustrating.

Bert
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Post by Bert »



Beatus Pistor
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:48 pm
Location: Judaea aut Palaestina-Secunda

Post by Beatus Pistor »

Trying reading it in context, i.e. try to understand this sentence/phrase in the text level, not in the sentence level. Old lexicons and Grammars usually tell you how to translate, rather than explain the Greek and the former is usually the result of their subjective understanding of the sentence, which is usually according to sentence syntax, instead of text syntax (which is the more acceptable in modern linguistics).

Post Reply