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ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

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ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby annis » Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:09 am

ILIAS A.480-483<br /><br />Chruses has prayed to Apollo to turn back his anger; hekatombs have been sacrificed. The Achaeans are returning to camp.<br /><br />[face=SPIonic]<br />oi( d' i(sto\n sth/sant' a)na/ q' i(sti/a leuka\ pe/tassan:<br />e)n d' a)/nemoj prh=sen me/son i(sto/on, a)mfi\ de\ ku=ma<br />stei/rh| porfu/reon mega/l' i)/axe nh\oj i)ou/shj:<br />h( d' e)/qeen kata\ ku=ma diaprh=ssousa ke/leuqon.<br />[/face]<br /><br />"And they raised the mast, and up they furled the white sails;<br />the wind filled in the middle of the sail, and all about the cut-water the<br />glittering waves roared large as the ship went;<br />and she sped down the waves, passing over the route."<br /><br />I have minimal exposure to sailing in my life, but whenever I read this passage I can hear the sail snapping open, the mast creaking, and the sound of the waves against the hull as the boat cuts through the water.<br />
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby Lumen_et_umbra » Sat Aug 30, 2003 6:29 pm

Which dialect of Greek is this? It isn't Attic, is it?
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby Paul » Sat Aug 30, 2003 7:51 pm

Hey William,<br /><br />I was up late last night and saw your post right after you made it. Had I been less tired I would have responded immediately.<br /><br />The passage you quoted is one of my favorites too. But I find it more visually than aurally evocative. I see the white of the billowing sail and the deep blue (purple?) of the sea, both sparkling in brilliant sunshine. I can fairly feel the salt spray on my face. <br /><br />It's a lovely passage. Thank you for calling it to mind...what the deaf man sees...<br /><br />Cordially,<br /><br />Paul
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby annis » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:53 pm

[quote author=Lumen_et_umbra link=board=2;threadid=568;start=0#5109 date=1062268161]<br />Which dialect of Greek is this? It isn't Attic, is it?<br />[/quote]<br /><br />It's Epic (aka Homeric) Greek.<br /><br />Which bit clued you into its non-Atticness?<br />
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby annis » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:01 pm

[quote author=Paul link=board=2;threadid=568;start=0#5114 date=1062273107]<br />billowing sail and the deep blue (purple?) of the sea,<br />[/quote]<br /><br />The best explanation for [face=SPIonic]pofu/reoj[/face], which describes the royal purple dye extracted from shellfish, the sea and spurting blood, is by William Harris. He noticed once that the murex dye has a shimmering quality, and that this is probably what Homer had in mind when he described the sea (imagine light glinting off the waves) or spurting blood (oxygenated blood has a shiney quality, too) as [face=SPIonic]porfu/reoj[/face], rather than the purple quality of the dye.<br />
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby mingshey » Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:03 am

As for me, the first sign of non-atticness was the word for "wind".<br />mu and nu are exchanged. In the first paragraph of Odysseia 12, genetive singular with -oio was another.
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby Paul » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:43 am

[quote author=William Annis link=board=2;threadid=568;start=0#5119 date=1062280882]<br />The best explanation for [face=SPIonic]pofu/reoj[/face], which describes the royal purple dye extracted from shellfish, the sea and spurting blood, is by William Harris. He noticed once that the murex dye has a shimmering quality, and that this is probably what Homer had in mind when he described the sea (imagine light glinting off the waves) or spurting blood (oxygenated blood has a shiney quality, too) as [face=SPIonic]porfu/reoj[/face], rather than the purple quality of the dye.<br />[/quote]<br />It really is an interesting word. Cunliffe relates it to the <br />verb [face=SPIonic]porfu/rw[/face]. His derivation suggests that the shimmering quality is something<br />observed in light reflected from moving or disturbed liquids.<br /><br />Would that I could afford Chantraine...sigh.<br /><br /><br /><br />
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby annis » Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:38 am

[quote author=mingshey link=board=2;threadid=568;start=0#5121 date=1062291782]<br />As for me, the first sign of non-atticness was the word for "wind".<br />mu and nu are exchanged.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />That wasn't non-atticness, that was a typo. :-\ Fixed.<br /><br />
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τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby mingshey » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:17 pm

[quote author=William Annis link=board=2;threadid=568;start=0#5125 date=1062304684]<br /><br />That wasn't non-atticness, that was a typo. :-\ Fixed.<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />D'oh! :o<br />Master's typo's poison to beginners. :P
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby Emma_85 » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:52 pm

lol, i tried to translate that passage myself, before looking at your translation. i didn't get very far and was confused ???<br /><br />it made sense after reading your translation, though :). just hope my teacher will start us off with easier passages, when i go back to school (tomorrow's first day back).
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby annis » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:55 pm

[quote author=Emma_85 link=board=2;threadid=568;start=0#5134 date=1062352353]<br />lol, i tried to translate that passage myself, before looking at your translation. i didn't get very far and was confused ???<br />[/quote]<br /><br />It's a moderately tricky passage if you haven't seen much Greek except Attic prose.<br />
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby Emma_85 » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:05 pm

nearly only attic prose, yes. we've done nothing but plato for the last half year. i'm very excited that we're going to be translating homer this year, though i'm worried a bit, too. i could just read plato and understand most of it, no need for translation, but this... :-\<br />maybe it's also because of the holidays and my brain doesn't like the fact i'm 'working' it again, after not using it for a while ;).
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Re:ou(= a)kou/ei o( tuflo/s

Postby annis » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:21 pm

[quote author=mingshey link=board=2;threadid=568;start=0#5129 date=1062339429]<br />[quote author=William Annis link=board=2;threadid=568;start=0#5125 date=1062304684]<br /><br />That wasn't non-atticness, that was a typo. :-\ Fixed.<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />D'oh! :o<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Indeed. I have dyslexia with that word alone.<br /><br />
<br />Master's typo's poison to beginners. :P<br />
<br /><br />More evidence you should always check what someone else is saying, master or not (not a master in my case... merely enthusiastic).
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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