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The Third Declension

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The Third Declension

Postby Bovulus » Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:48 am

Everyone can agree that the third declension is evil, right? (I like to joke with my teacher and blame it on her.) Well just how evil is it?
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Episcopus » Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:42 pm

-s , -is, i, em, e ; es, um, ibus, es, ibus<br /><br />that's the consonant stems that I am on and personally I be finding the imperfect, future and present passive harder. <br />However, for nouns (relative to the 1st and 2nd decs) 3rd = very hard
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Keesa » Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:33 am

Third declension? Subjuntice? You're scaring me....<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby benissimus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:36 am

I like the third declension... there was only one even remotely positive poll answer though >:(
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Romulus753 » Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:12 am

Got to give a POSITIVE reply to 3rd Declension! I love the "x" ending words whose nominative or base has pure English carryover value: <br /> styx, stygis ( river styx, stygian)<br /> rex, regis (tyrannosaurus rex, regiment)<br /> appendix, appendicis (appendix, appendices)<br /> lux, lucis (lux- as in light power, lucid)<br /> vox, vocis (vox populi- vociferous)<br /><br /> you can think of many more...just a taste<br /><br />Got to love those words that come directly in that have a variety of nominatives...<br /> omen, ominis (omen, ominous)<br /> abdomen, abdominis (abdomen, abdominal)<br /> opus, operis (magum opus, opera, operations)<br /> onus, oneris (onus of responsibility, exonerated)<br /> pons, pontis (pons - anatomical word, pontiff, pontoon)<br /> semen, seminis (semen, seminarian, disseminate)<br /><br />I could go on...ad gloriam...but this is one of the ways I teach the 3rd Declension...tremendous amount of word building material available in this declension... <br /><br />Valete....<br />
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby benissimus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:23 am

I think what I really like about the third declension is that any word that would fit nowhere else can always fit into its structure. Whenever you want to make up your own word, third declension is always very accommodating as well.
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Bovulus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:27 am

Bah! The Third declension is wicked and evil!<br /><br />The rest of Latin is (mostly) regular; the third declension is just crazy!<br /><br />My teacher hates it when, instead of asterikizing notes on the third declension or the subjunctive, I PENTAGRAM them.
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby benissimus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:30 am

What's so crazy about it? The nominative is the only irregular thing, and it usually follows a pattern, but has just been slightly corrupted.
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Bovulus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:58 am

Well, to be more specific, most of my rage is directed to i-stems.
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Keesa » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:46 am

[quote author=Romulus753 link=board=3;threadid=523;start=0#4622 date=1061514721]<br />Got to give a POSITIVE reply to 3rd Declension! I love the "x" ending words whose nominative or base has pure English carryover value: <br /> styx, stygis ( river styx, stygian)<br /> rex, regis (tyrannosaurus rex, regiment)<br /> appendix, appendicis (appendix, appendices)<br /> lux, lucis (lux- as in light power, lucid)<br /> vox, vocis (vox populi- vociferous)<br /><br /> you can think of many more...just a taste<br /><br />Got to love those words that come directly in that have a variety of nominatives...<br /> omen, ominis (omen, ominous)<br /> abdomen, abdominis (abdomen, abdominal)<br /> opus, operis (magum opus, opera, operations)<br /> onus, oneris (onus of responsibility, exonerated)<br /> pons, pontis (pons - anatomical word, pontiff, pontoon)<br /> semen, seminis (semen, seminarian, disseminate)<br /><br />I could go on...ad gloriam...but this is one of the ways I teach the 3rd Declension...tremendous amount of word building material available in this declension... <br /><br />Valete....<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />You know, you're right...Latin has a great potential as a base for other languages, and these stems have the most potential. I'll definitely have to learn them well when I get to them. <br /><br />Until then, I still say you're scaring me. ;D<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Episcopus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:20 pm

And last night, Dr. B.L.D taught me that 3rd declension makes sense. At least about -s adding consonant stems <br />The Nominative singular with an "e" changes to "i" in stem/base. <br />And c+s, g+s = x. <br /><br />So iúdics changes to iúdex yay! <br /><br />Before I actually read about it, I made sense of wherefore "x" replaced cs, gs ;D<br />
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Milito » Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:50 pm

[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=523;start=0#4619 date=1061512607]<br />I like the third declension... there was only one even remotely positive poll answer though >:(<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I take it that you chose the "well-balanced breakfast" too, hm?<br /><br />I like 3rd declension nouns as well. I like them better all the time. Even the "i" stems!<br /><br />Maybe we need another poll to rate the positive feelings.... ;D<br /><br />Kilmeny
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby benissimus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:59 pm

My hierarchy for the declensions would have to be:<br />4>5>3>2>1 (Sorry, Episcopus, but pretty fourth declensions is :-X)<br />Conjugations:<br />4>3>1>2
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Episcopus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:05 pm

Yeah, but cornu is the only one in frequent use.
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Milito » Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:09 pm

[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=523;start=0#4703 date=1061589929]<br />Yeah, but cornu is the only one in frequent use.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Are you neglecting your fructus?
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby benissimus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:10 pm

That's not true at all. The word for "hand" is manus, a word for fear, metus. There are quite a few others, but they only make up less than 2 percent of all Latin words
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Magistra » Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:22 am

Is the problem remembering the endings or just the fact that the nom & gen can be so different?<br /><br />Endings are easy; just sing "Jingle Bells" (Start with "Dashing through the snow" & keep going through all the verses & chorus):<br /><br />(blank) dash<br />-is -ing<br />-i through<br />-em the<br />-e snow<br /><br />-es in a <br />-um one<br />-ibus horse<br />-es open<br />-ibus sleigh<br /><br />ETC.<br /><br />There are relatively few i-stems. If you're aware that they exist, you can probably understand them in context. <br /><br />As to the stems when reading, I agree with Benissimus (?) that the really weird ones are 3rd. However, the stems usually provide English derivitives which can give a clue to the basic meaning.<br /><br />Magistra
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Episcopus » Sat Aug 23, 2003 1:11 pm

3rd declension is for a noun declension very evil. <br /><br />French is so nice, rarely are there any freak changes in plurals and there is no dative genitive etc for nouns really...ah french I loves it. And in speech a plural is pronounced the same as singular the change being the article les enfants l'enfant...<br /><br />No wonder the french people evolved the language into a simpler flowing form. Latin relatively is very difficult.
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Milito » Sat Aug 23, 2003 1:31 pm

[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=523;start=15#4769 date=1061644317]<br />No wonder the french people evolved the language into a simpler flowing form. Latin relatively is very difficult. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />I have to admit to being ***very*** grateful that I didn't have to learn English as a second language.... I think Latin must be about a thousand times easier to deal with than English would be!<br /><br />Kilmeny
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Episcopus » Sat Aug 23, 2003 1:42 pm

That's because of the damn pronunciation and spelling irregularities damn this language
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Re:The Beautiful Third Declension

Postby Elucubrator » Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:11 am

Sorry, I couldn't vote because no choice was given in the poll to categorise the beautiful third declension. Just because something is difficult doesn't make it evil. Personally, I love the variety of stems that exist in the third declension and the consequent variety in sounds that it makes possible for the poet who is writing in the language.<br /><br />Without the third declension, the beauty of Latin would only be a pale shade of what we know. Imagine the alternative: remove from Vergil every word of the third declension. Almost all nouns and adjectives modifying them now share the same endings and the same sound. <br /><br />To see the effect this would have had on the modern Romance languages, you must remove every word from these which had its origin in the third declension. <br /><br />The possibility even of this thought frightens me. If it were the case we would not know the rich beauty of the languages which we enjoy today, and what a let down that would be.<br /><br />Write me into the list of Partisans of the 3rd Declension,<br /><br />Sebastian<br /><br /><br />PD If you want all the endings to be the same why not learn Esperanto instead? LOL <br /><br />
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Episcopus » Sun Aug 24, 2003 3:03 pm

That same-ending tongue sounds tempting.
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby benissimus » Sun Aug 24, 2003 9:34 pm

Go Seba!
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Emma_85 » Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:40 pm

:o<br />am i really the only one who absolutly hates the 3rd declension?!<br />come on... english is much easier than latin (though french is much more difficult i think, or maybe it's just me... hate how they don't pronounce half of the word :P).<br /><br />the third declension is not beautiful in my opinion but really terrrrrible! ;)
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Keesa » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:32 pm

I haven't started learning the third declension yet, but it does seem a tad frightening...I"m sure it will resolve itself once I start learning it. ;) <br /><br />Keesa
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Emma_85 » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:37 pm

Ohh learning was no problem, the problem is the forgetting and the mixing up :-P<br />But you seem to be so enthusiastic; I don't think you'll have much trouble. It’s when you’re forced to learn the 3rd declension and outside there's bright sunshine and your 13 years old and want to go to the skate park or the swimming baths...<br />
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Keesa » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:43 pm

Yeeess, I can see that. Understanding comes much more easily, I think, when you do it voluntarily. Only one more of the reasons why I love homeschooling! Outside of that core curriculum that the government insists on, everything I've learned, I learned by choice...and it's stuck. Probably I would have hated Latin and Greek and Classics and even Reading, if I'd had to do them. <br /><br />Now, if only the government would make higher mathematics optional! ;D<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Emma_85 » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:51 pm

homeschooling is not very common at all where i live. the only person i know who was homeschooled, was my cousin and that was only junior school. he's now going to a technical school in bristol, which is a new sort of state elite school. <br /><br />where are you from? america? i know quite a few people on the internet from america, who were homeschooled, seems to be more normal there.
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Keesa » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:54 pm

Reply posted in open forum. <br /><br />Keesa
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby mingshey » Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:51 am

(should i restart latin???)<br /><br />reg+s > rex<br /><br />and revising the formula to -s, -is, -i, -em, -e ; ...<br /><br />may penitentiate(is it english?) the devil?
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Bovulus » Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:43 am

Enough talk! The People's Army marches forward!
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Re:The Third Declension

Postby Keesa » Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:14 pm

It's really nice to see that so many people enjoy the Third Declension. I haven't gotten to it yet (I haven't been able to study Latin for the past three days! :'() but I'm glad that, when I do, it will be pleasant. <br /><br />Keesa
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