Textkit Logo

Pharr section 128 line 4

Are you reading Homeric Greek or studying Homeric Greek with Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners? Here's where you can meet other Homeric Greek learners. Use this board for all things Homeric Greek.

Pharr section 128 line 4

Postby Bert » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:35 am

This line reads as follows: [face=SPIonic]ei)/ pote kraiai/nei a)/nac e)e/ldwr i(erh=i, Danaoi\ ti/sousi da/krua ge/rontoj be/lessin qeou=.[/face] I think I know what this means but I would like to make sure that I am on the right path. I'll give my translation with the words in bold print being the ones that I am unsure of. Any comment will be appreciated.<br /><br />If at any time the Protector performs his will for the priest, the Greeks will pay for the tears of the old man by means of the arrows of god.
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Re:Pharr section 128 line 4

Postby annis » Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:12 am

It looks right to me.<br /><br />I normally translate [face=SPIonic]pote/[/face] as "ever" when it follows [face=SPIonic]ei)[/face], but that's just a stylistic matter.<br /><br />
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Re:Pharr section 128 line 4

Postby Paul » Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:17 am

I quite agree with 'if ever' for [face=SPIonic]ei)/ pote[/face].<br /><br />Less sure about whose [face=SPIonic]e)e/ldwr [/face] we're talking about. I read it as the desire not<br />of [face=SPIonic]a)/nac[/face], but of [face=SPIonic]i(erh=i[/face].<br /><br />Book A is rife with examples of neuter nouns with a dative showing almost a kind of posssion; cf. instances of [face=SPIonic]ge/ras[/face]. See also A.41.<br /><br />I would translate (the meaning, not the words) as "If ever<br />the protector fulfills the priest's wish..."<br /><br />Cordially,<br /><br />Paul<br />
User avatar
Paul
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York

Re:Pharr section 128 line 4

Postby Bert » Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:55 pm

Thanks to both of you.<br />In trying to translate the dative [face=SPIonic]i(erh=i[/face] I didn't even consider that it was the desire of the priest and not of Apollo. It does make more sence that way though. <br />In New Testament Greek I would have expected a word in the genitive to indicate whose desire it was.<br />Several times in Homer I have noticed that I have to supply the word 'his'. Is this a characteristic of Homer or Classical Greek in general?
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Re:Pharr section 128 line 4

Postby annis » Thu Aug 28, 2003 2:50 am

[quote author=Bert de Haan link=board=2;threadid=557;start=0#5051 date=1062028519]<br />In trying to translate the dative [face=SPIonic]i(erh=i[/face] I didn't even consider that it was the desire of the priest and not of Apollo. It does make more sence that way though. <br />[/quote]<br /> <br />Yep. Grammarian types call it the "dative of interest." He accomplishes the will for the priest.<br /><br />
<br />In New Testament Greek I would have expected a word in the genitive to indicate whose desire it was.<br />Several times in Homer I have noticed that I have to supply the word 'his'. Is this a characteristic of Homer or Classical Greek in general?<br />
<br /><br />Yep. Often classical will use the definite article where an English speaker would use a possesive. [face=SPIonic]a)ei\ a)kou/w tou= patro/j[/face] "I always listen to the (i.e. my) father."<br /><br />Homer will omit such things if the context is clear and it suits him to do so.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA


Return to Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: J. A. Prufrock and 10 guests

cron