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Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

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Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby randybroberg » Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:18 pm

A friend of mine recently saw above a door at a Jesuit school, the inscription \"ANDG\" and asked me what it meant. I guessed \"ad nostrum deo gloria\" but really had no idea. Do you know what this inscription stands for?<br />
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby Skylax » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:19 pm

Yes, it could be ad nostri dei gloriam. I heard also of AMDG, ad maiorem dei gloriam.
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby micans » Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:55 am

I am sure it must have been AMDG,<br />and, translated correctly by Skylax.<br />
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby Keesa » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:36 pm

What does "ad maiorem dei gloriam" mean, please? I have that phrase on the cover of one of my homeschooling catalogues, and I can't for the life of me translate it yet. <br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby micans » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:53 pm

Hello Keesa, <br />AMDG is the Motto of the Catholic Jesuit Order, and was also used by many a Catholic School in former years.<br />'Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam' is translated as<br />'For the Greater Glory of God.'<br />It was a reminder for what we are supposed to be about.<br />And you would see AMDG posted all over the place in the older Catholic schools.<br /><br /><br />
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby Keesa » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:03 pm

Oh, thank you! I've been wondering what it meant. I don't think that the catalogue was specifically Jesuit (although it might have been), but it definitely has a Christian slant, so the translation makes sense. <br /><br />Thanks again! <br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby klewlis » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:36 pm

if it is "greater glory" (which makes sense because of the cases) then why is dei plunked right between those? wouldn't it make more sense to put maiorem gloriam together?
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby micans » Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:11 pm

Why is Dei between Maiorem and Gloriam?<br />A good question.<br />Of course, this is Church Latin as distinct from Classical Latin.<br />But it's good iambic metre, isn't it.<br />Try repeating as an Ejaculation:<br />Ad Dei Maiorem Gloriam . Awkward! <br />
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Hyperbaton

Postby Elucubrator » Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:05 pm

[quote author=klewlis link=board=3;threadid=526;start=0#4945 date=1061904986]<br />if it is "greater glory" (which makes sense because of the cases) then why is dei plunked right between those? wouldn't it make more sense to put maiorem gloriam together?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />This is a really tough question to answer, however, once you get used to Latin you will feel that "ad maiorem gloriam Dei" is much more awkward Latin than AMDG. "Ad maiorem gloriam Dei" is a word for word transcription into Latin of a thought expressed in standard English word order, and it loses all the weight and emphasis, which the "ad maiorem Dei gloriam" of Latin makes possible, where the complete thought comes together upon pronouncement of the final word but not before it. This is only because the substantive gloriam has been delayed.<br /><br />Another possibility would have been to write the substantive before the adjective, but notice how the emphasis is lost: "ad gloriam Dei maiorem." Here maiorem is but an afterthought. Other arrangements are possible. Try them out and see if you can come up with one better than AMDG.<br /><br />"Ad maiorem Dei gloriam" is standard, not only because it keeps the reader in suspense about what the adjective is modifying until the complete thought is expressed but because sandwiching the defining genitive in between the adjective and noun is the way that Latin emphasises that the Genitive is modifying "gloriam" (in this case) as opposed to something that may come afterwards in the sentence. Greek has the help of an article to keep things clear. Latin does not. <br /><br />This figure of speech is called hyperbaton, Gildersleeve defines it as "Trajection, the violent displacement of words," and gives one ex. from Horace. I hardly find it to be violent, and find this definition amusing. I think that Smyth's definition is more elucidative:<br /><br /> Hyperbaton is the separation of words naturally belonging together. Such displacement usually gives prominence to the first of two words thus separated, but sometimes to the second also. <br /> In prose hyperbaton is less common than in poetry, but even in prose it is frequent, especially when it secures emphasis on an important idea by placing it at the beginning or end of a sentence. At times hyperbaton may mark passionate exitement. Sometimes it was adopted to gain rhythmical effect. Thus:<br /><br />Such resting found the sole of unblest feet (Milton)<br /><br />Here is another great set of lines from Paradise Lost<br /><br />Which when Beelzebub perceiv'd, than whom<br />Satan except, none higher sat, with grave<br />Aspect he rose...<br /><br />"Ad maiorem Dei Gloriam" is a very mild, and very common form of hyperbaton in Latin. So common in fact that it has made the arrangement of words in "Ad maiorem gloriam Dei", not only bland in expression but also awkward.<br /><br />I hope that in these words some provision hast thou been able to derive.<br /><br /><br />Sebastian ;)<br />
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby Lumen_et_umbra » Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:52 pm

I absolutely agree with Elucubrator (very well explained by the way :) ). In my Latin readings, poetry in particular, I have found that a phrase, with a word modified by and adjective and then limited by a word in the genitive case, commonly has the word in the genitive oriented between the adjective and noun; it thus has a very mild and standard emphasis. I also think that this helps the reader better identify to which word the genitive word belongs.<br /><br />e.g.<br /><br />Magnum magnae virtutis librum bono etiam magnae virtutis viro vendit. (forgive me if this isn't fantastic Latin; I believe it illustrates my point well enough, however. ;) )<br /><br />
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Re:Inscription "ANDG" at Jesuit school

Postby Moerus » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:09 pm

@ Elucubrator: great explanation!
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