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Kyrie eleeson

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Kyrie eleeson

Postby Luciantodoran » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:16 am

Who can help me by saying to me which version of the Bible in Greek is nowadays used by the Greek Orthodox Church, by the Greek Roman-Catholic Church and by the Greek Greek-Catholic Church?
:)
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Re: Kyrie eleeson

Postby modus.irrealis » Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:03 pm

Luciantodoran wrote:Who can help me by saying to me which version of the Bible in Greek is nowadays used by the Greek Orthodox Church, by the Greek Roman-Catholic Church and by the Greek Greek-Catholic Church?
:)


For the Orthodox Church, I'm not sure what the name of version used is but the Orthodox Church of Greece has a library online and I have to assume that the bible they put up here is the "official" version. (Most of the website is in Greek but it's not too hard to navigate). I can only add that the Septuagint is the official Old Testament and that the apocryphal books are (for the most part) considered canonical.

I don't know anything about the other two churches, not even that there's a difference between them. What do those terms refer to?

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Two lungs

Postby Luciantodoran » Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:58 pm

The other two Churches, the Roman-Catholic Church and the Greek-Catholic Church are actually, one Church, the Catholic Church.
This can be explained because the Catholic Church has only one belief (so only one dogma), but many ways of expressing it, which are called "rites" and there are related to each people's, to each nation's traditions.
The Roman or Latin rite found in the Roman-Catholic Church had, until the Second Vatican Council, as a ditinguishing feature, the Latin language used in the Liturghy. The Greek or Byzantine rite found in the Greek-Catholic Churches (spread in Ukraine, Romania, Greece, Hungary,...) is the expression of the byzantine tradition. There are many more other rites like the Caldeean, the Syriac, the Maronite, the Melkite,..., which are called (exept the Roman rite) Oriental Rites.
I attach an image of an Romanian Greek-Catholic bishop with a Roman-Catholic bishop at his left, so as to have a clear ideea about the subject.

Image
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Re: Two lungs

Postby modus.irrealis » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:35 pm

So that's why Ukranian Catholic churches have Greek Catholic on their signs, because of the rite (I guess things like the Litrugy of St. Chrysostom right?). I had always been puzzled about that. Thanks for the information.

Back to your original question, though, as far as I know, there are very few Greek(-speaking) Greek-Catholics, so I'd imagine that Greek Roman-Catholics would be few and far between.

And I like the picture you included, to me it looks like two "Orthodox" hats and then a "Catholic" hat :).

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Re: Two lungs

Postby edonnelly » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:13 am

Luciantodoran wrote:The other two Churches, the Roman-Catholic Church and the Greek-Catholic Church are actually, one Church, the Catholic Church.
This can be explained because the Catholic Church has only one belief (so only one dogma), but many ways of expressing it, which are called "rites" and there are related to each people's, to each nation's traditions.


The Eastern Catholic Church (or at least part of it) allows priests to be married. Occasionally these priest transfer (or whatever it is called) into the Roman Catholic Church (it's really all one Church). This is how we happened to have one of the few married Roman Catholic priests in Cincinnati when I was younger (he may well still be there).
The lists:
G'Oogle and the Internet Pharrchive - 1100 or so free Latin and Greek books.
DownLOEBables - Free books from the Loeb Classical Library
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Postby Luciantodoran » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:03 pm

modus.irrealis wrote:because of the rite (I guess things like the Litrugy of St. Chrysostom right?)

Yes, the form, the shape, of the Liturgy is the most important element of the rite. The Byzantine rite Catholic Churces (and the Greek Orthodox Churches) have three types of Liturgies: the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom (this is the most often celebrated), as you have said, the Liturgy of Saint Basil the Great (celebrated in the Sundays of the Lent) and the Liturgy of Saint Gregory of Nazianzus (which has the name "liturgy", but has no preface and it's celebrated in the Wednesdays and Fridays of the Lent).
modus.irrealis wrote:And I like the picture you included, to me it looks like two "Orthodox" hats and then a "Catholic" hat :).

:lol: Yes, Greek-Catholic and Orthodox bishops and have the same liturgical vestments, so the same "hats" (mitres). The Greek-Catholic and Roman-Catholic priests and bishops are allowed to celebrate the Divine Liturgy together even though have different "hats": they have the same belief. The Greek-Catholic and Orthodox priests and bishops are not allowed to celebrate together the Liturgy although they have the same "hats": their belief is not the same (but it is very close).

I would recommend to you, the Catholic Encyclopedia's site where you can find thorugh articles about the Byzantine Church. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to post them. I'm here to answer. :wink:

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Postby modus.irrealis » Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:40 am

Luciantodoran wrote:Yes, the form, the shape, of the Liturgy is the most important element of the rite. The Byzantine rite Catholic Churces (and the Greek Orthodox Churches) have three types of Liturgies: the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom (this is the most often celebrated), as you have said, the Liturgy of Saint Basil the Great (celebrated in the Sundays of thett Lent) and the Liturgy of Saint Gregory of Nazianzus (which has the name "liturgy", but has no preface and it's celebrated in the Wednesdays and Fridays of the Lent).


That last Liturgy is called the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts in my church, although it's only celebrated now on Wednesdays only.

:lol: Yes, Greek-Catholic and Orthodox bishops and have the same liturgical vestments, so the same "hats" (mitres). The Greek-Catholic and Roman-Catholic priests and bishops are allowed to celebrate the Divine Liturgy together even though have different "hats": they have the same belief. The Greek-Catholic and Orthodox priests and bishops are not allowed to celebrate together the Liturgy although they have the same "hats": their belief is not the same (but it is very close).


I've found, at least on the Orthodox side which I'm more familiar with, that "how close" is a much debated question. :)

I would recommend to you, the Catholic Encyclopedia's site where you can find thorugh articles about the Byzantine Church. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to post them. I'm here to answer. :wink:


To be honest, I have problems with that encyclopedia and the biases I see in it. I see it more as a source for the Catholic point of view on issues. But I do have a question -- what do you mean there by the Byzantine Church?

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