



Bert wrote:When Peter D posts something, it has to involve American politics and/or some sort of Bush-bash.![]()
How much stock do you put in something that was reported from memory, what was heard from a translator, and than translated back into English, and then denied by the original reporter?
(In addition to that, Bush also denies having said it.)
Here is what we know for sure, so far. Journalist Arnon Regular wrote, in the June 26 edition of Ha'aretz (Israel's most reputable newspaper), that he has minutes of a meeting among top-level Palestinian leaders, including Prime Minister Mahmoud Abas. The minutes are apparently quite detailed, because Regular wrote a long article recounting very specific conversations. The last paragraph of the article reads:
"According to Abbas, Bush said: 'God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.'"
Before you jump to any conclusions, remember that you are reading a translation of a translation of a translation. Mahmoud Abas does not speak English. Bush does not speak Arabic. If Bush said these words, or something like them, Abas heard them from a translator. Then Abas repeated them, as he remembered them a couple of weeks later, in Arabic. Some unknown person wrote down what he thought he heard Abas say. Then Regular, or someone at Ha'aretz, translated them back into English-or perhaps first into Hebrew and then into English.
Clearly, we don't yet know what Bush said, or why. Just as clearly, the man has some explaining to do. And whatever the truth of the matter, he has serious problems.
PeterD wrote:What kind of crazy god do these fundamentalist "Christians" believe in?
Rhuiden wrote:PeterD wrote:What kind of crazy god do these fundamentalist "Christians" believe in?
The one true God, Creator of all things, Savior of my soul, the Alpha & Omega........shall I go on.
I can't speak for all fundamentalists but this is a small, inadequate description of the God I serve.
Rhuiden
PeterD wrote:Btw, I did not purposely try to involve American politics nor Bush-bash (not this time anyway). Heck, Bert, I didn't even resort to calling "your" President Chimp, nor by any of the awful adjectives that truly describe him: like incompetent, stupid, moronic, feebleminded, dense, imbecile, retarded, etc., etc., etc..
Bert wrote:How much stock do you put in something that was reported from memory, what was heard from a translation, and then translated back into English...
Bert then wrote:I am very sceptical about the accuracy about the quote though.
Rhuiden wrote:Also, my faith is in the one true God of the universe because of what He did in my life. I know what He did for me. I know how He changed my life.
Paul wrote:Peter, I've got just the guy for you. His name is David Icke and he shares your opinions about the Bush family.
annis wrote:Rhuiden wrote:Mere Christianity is on my reading list. I plan to get to it someday. I have heard it is an excellent book.
I'm going to be reading that some time soon, probably this summer. Another reading group!
PeterD wrote:Now, please explain why you don't show the same kind of healthy scepticism when it comes to the bible---a text that has undergone countless of editions and revisions before it became more or less fixed, sometime in the 5th century if I am not mistaken?
PeterD wrote:Rhuiden wrote:
Also, my faith is in the one true God of the universe because of what He did in my life. I know what He did for me. I know how He changed my life.
You should give yourself more credit. YOU made the effort. YOU made the sacrifices. YOU did it all, my dear friend.
I would be destined to spend eternity separated from Him in Hell.
PeterD wrote:Now, please explain why you don't show the same kind of healthy scepticism when it comes to the bible---a text that has undergone countless of editions and revisions before it became more or less fixed, sometime in the 5th century if I am not mistaken?
Rhuiden wrote:PeterD wrote:What kind of crazy god do these fundamentalist "Christians" believe in?
The one true God, Creator of all things, Savior of my soul, the Alpha & Omega........shall I go on.
I can't speak for all fundamentalists but this is a small, inadequate description of the God I serve.
Rhuiden
ethopoeia wrote:With that John Wayne look à la Indian killer -a previous edition of the clash of civilizations- I rather think of the God Sabbaoth, Lord of the Heavenly Armies //+++// :D
Sanskrit wrote:I would be destined to spend eternity separated from Him in Hell.
I have heard that it is very warm there, much better than here in the Netherlands. I like to travel to exotic places, can't wait to see hell.
Sanskrit wrote:Sorry, bad joke. :)
Personnaly I don't believe in eternal seperation from God, because God lives in your heart, not in heaven. If you see God as a sort of parent figure, maybe he has to punish sometimes, but I don't think that a father, or God, would be so cruel to punish you forever.
Rhuiden wrote:By the way, the Heavenly Armies are doing battle right now. They are fighting a spiritual war with Satan and his armies. But get this, the outcome is already decided and we know who wins. Choose this day whom you will serve....
annis wrote:So the next time you're witnessing to some benighted unbeliever, and after a period of things going well, the unbeliever suddenly becomes belligerant or spastic or flees, you might want to review what you just said. I'd bet a lot of the time this martial language was the trigger.
annis wrote:once tested live with satisfying results for me
Rhuiden wrote:This is a common misunderstanding of what happens. God does not punish a person forever, He simply allows the person to experience the consequences of their choices. In other words, if a person chooses to be separated from God while they are alive, He does not force them to be with Him for eternity. He simply gives them what they chose.
The Good News is that anyone and everyone can chose not to go to Hell. It is as simple as accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
Sanskrit wrote:He isn't punishing a person forever, but he does allow someone to be punished forever based on his decision not to accept Jesus. Isn't that the same? There's not much of a decision left anymore. Either accept Jesus or choose for eternal damnation.
edonnelly wrote:But in Rhuiden's defense,
annis wrote:once tested live with satisfying results for me
I would love to hear the details of what happened, if you're inclined to share them.
annis wrote:When I hear Christians use this martial language about battles against Satan's armies, I have the same fight-or-flight rush. It just completely freaks me out, and I know other non-christians who feel the same.
So the next time you're witnessing to some benighted unbeliever, and after a period of things going well, the unbeliever suddenly becomes belligerant or spastic or flees, you might want to review what you just said. I'd bet a lot of the time this martial language was the trigger.
Rhuiden wrote:the Heavenly Armies are doing battle right now. They are fighting a spiritual war with Satan and his armies. But get this, the outcome is already decided and we know who wins. Rhuiden
Rhuiden wrote:ethopoeia wrote:With that John Wayne look à la Indian killer -a previous edition of the clash of civilizations- I rather think of the God Sabbaoth, Lord of the Heavenly Armies //+++//
You don't like John Wayne?
God is the Lord of the Heavenly Armies but He is so much more.
By the way, the Heavenly Armies are doing battle right now. They are fighting a spiritual war with Satan and his armies. But get this, the outcome is already decided and we know who wins. Choose this day whom you will serve....as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Rhuiden
ethopoeia wrote:No, I actually dislike trigger-happy John Wayne
Rhuiden wrote:Sanskrit wrote:He isn't punishing a person forever, but he does allow someone to be punished forever based on his decision not to accept Jesus. Isn't that the same? There's not much of a decision left anymore. Either accept Jesus or choose for eternal damnation.
Allowing something to happen is not the same as causing it to happen. But you have it exactly right, those are the two alternatives, once we understand the choice we have then we have no-one but ourselves to blame.
Rhuiden
edonnelly wrote:ethopoeia wrote:No, I actually dislike trigger-happy John Wayne
Did he shoot somebody, or are you just unhappy with the characters he played in movies?
ethopoeia wrote:Of course, playing the character of a nazi in a movie doesn't automatically turn you into a nazi, just like playing the character of a cowboy doesn't turn you automatically into a cowboy.
ethopoeia wrote:may spread nazi or cowboy aesthetics or ideology, which is mainly:
Andrus wrote:Rhuiden that was something that bother me a little with the fact that God is consider to be omniscient. My soul (considering that I have one for the sake of discussion) was made by God, I presume that was made with some intention as I can’t see God acting by a mood. God when made it knew exactly the way He want it, knew exactly what kind of environment it would be exposed, and as He knows everything it must have known that I would be come an atheist, so how it is my choice that in your point of view will led me to eternal punishment?
Basically I can’t consolidate both concepts, free will and God being omniscient. I know that this is it a little off the original discussion in this post but follows naturally from the point that the post it is now.
ethopoeia wrote:However, showing the character of a nazi or a cowboy in an apologetic and heroic fashion may spread nazi or cowboy aesthetics or ideology, which is mainly:
1. racist: whites are superior to Jews, Indians, Blacks, Arabs, Spanish or any other people.
2. imperialist: whites have the right to settle wherever they please.
3. genocide: whites have the right to exterminate any of the aforesaid peoples.
4. fanatic: God will lead us to victory against our enemies.
I hope nobody here has that kind of ideology.
ethopoeia wrote:However, if nazis and cowboys were the same thing, I wouldn't have them compared, but both included within a broader category of global nazis.
Since there's no such a thing as global nazis, I can only compare nazi / cowboy aesthetics and ideology -white racism, settler imperialism, Untermensch genocide, religious fanatism- in order to draw a clear line between both.
Rhuiden wrote:By the way, the Heavenly Armies are doing battle right now. They are fighting a spiritual war with Satan and his armies. But get this, the outcome is already decided and we know who wins.
Rhuiden
Kopio wrote:First I must say that I do believe in eternal punishment, and it is one of my least favorite concepts in the bible. I don't like it at all, nonetheless, it is what the bible teaches.
Rhuiden wrote:I have heard Hell described in many ways but this is the first time I have heard the adjective "exotic" used.Sanskrit wrote:I have heard that it is very warm there, much better than here in the Netherlands. I like to travel to exotic places, can't wait to see hell.I would be destined to spend eternity separated from Him in Hell.
ethopoeia wrote:God is awesome and very dangerous indeed.
Do God's armies stand before a court martial when they kill civilians? :)
ethopoeia wrote:Does God apply death penalty after life?
ethopoeia wrote:Does God fly terrorist devils to exotic extraterritorial limbos instead of sending them to the actual hell?
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