I've decided to give up on classical poetry (or any thought of it) until I can have an actual person read it to me (e.g. a teacher ). Anyway, this sounds like and feels like Cattus Petasatus (which takes example from medieval stuff like Stabat Mater, etc.) I make no pretense of this carmen being well-rythmed or composed, or even of it being truly mediaeval. It's just what I threw together (thankfully with no ka-bar or ink! ) multo uino.
enjoy
amor quis est hic inuadens
meam mentem, mihi nocens?
is amabilis est osus,
uitam delet meam amaram
ardens ego interemo
amor! amor! Vae te malum!
quamquam odi te nunc dico
cauda ludos mauult tuos
femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illud quibus illa morit
iactat ui deleritatem
feminam amo sed me odit
ea ridet tum relinquit
iram pacem multo uino
triste amorem ësse cano
in renaissance (is that spelled right?) madrigals (either english or italian, or both... not exactly sure), 'to die' meant not 'to have the wind pass from ones body' (now i understand why 'morior' appears passive), but 'to climax'. just a little fyi in case you didn't know.
miserem me!
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Having taken a course or two on Renaissance literature, I well appreciate the constant puns on "die" and "climax." It's almost as bad (well, good, depending on attitude) as the cuckold gags.
Here's a blow by blow reading.
-And... does cauda mean what I think it means...?
-I'm thrown off by illud quibus illa morit / iactat vi deleritatem. I can't figure it out. First of all, morit for moritur? It's deponent, as you mention later on. and what's illud quibus? I'll venture a guess on the rest: "...she dies / she violently flings insanity"
Fun little poem. Until quantity becomes natural to our ears, rhyming Latin is so much more accessible. Check out the carmina burana (especially the drinking songs) if you haven't already. (Here, for instance: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/carm.bur.html)
-David
Here's a blow by blow reading.
I like the slight pun on amaram - looks like amare and cognates, but really has the opposite meaning (bitter). The point, perhaps?amor quis est hic inuadens
meam mentem, mihi nocens?
is amabilis est osus,
uitam delet meam amaram
-Is there an object for interemo (kill, destroy)? Also, I think interimo (vowel shift in compound verb) may be more common.ardens ego interemo
amor! amor! Vae te malum!
quamquam odi te nunc dico
cauda ludos mauult tuos
-And... does cauda mean what I think it means...?
-velam isn't a word as far as I can tell - do you mean veniam (from veniam dare, to have mercy on, to be gracious to)? Perhaps confused with vela dare (from velum), to set sail?femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illud quibus illa morit
iactat ui deleritatem
-I'm thrown off by illud quibus illa morit / iactat vi deleritatem. I can't figure it out. First of all, morit for moritur? It's deponent, as you mention later on. and what's illud quibus? I'll venture a guess on the rest: "...she dies / she violently flings insanity"
FIne here, but I'm not sure what iram pacem is doing. Is there an implied esse there, to match the last line? So, "rage is peace--with a lot of wine, I sing, and love is sad"?feminam amo sed me odit
ea ridet tum relinquit
iram pacem multo uino
triste amorem ësse cano
Fun little poem. Until quantity becomes natural to our ears, rhyming Latin is so much more accessible. Check out the carmina burana (especially the drinking songs) if you haven't already. (Here, for instance: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/carm.bur.html)
-David
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interemo[r]. typo. arrgh.
as for amaram, aye. 'twas the point, the similarity.
cauda... it depends on what you think it means.. but you're probably right.
uela- *covers face in horror*
femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illa ficus quae illa gustat
intro iactat ui furorem
or:
ira pace multo uino
tristem amorem esse cano
just thought of that right now..
thanks for the help and suggestions.
-Jon
as for amaram, aye. 'twas the point, the similarity.
cauda... it depends on what you think it means.. but you're probably right.
uela- *covers face in horror*
you got me.. I did, in fact forget mori to be a deponent, seeing as I haven't really learned about them yet. how's this?illud quibus illa morit
femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illa ficus quae illa gustat
intro iactat ui furorem
triste et multo cum uino cano amorem esse iram et pacemiram[,] pacem multo uino
triste amorem esse cano
or:
ira pace multo uino
tristem amorem esse cano
just thought of that right now..
speaking of carmina burana, my band plays a reduced-to-two-guitars version of 'o fortuna'. it's really fun to play. and speaking of 'fun', it was hell to write, but I'm glad it's not hell to read.Fun little poem. Until quantity becomes natural to our ears, rhyming Latin is so much more accessible. Check out the carmina burana (especially the drinking songs) if you haven't already.
thanks for the help and suggestions.
-Jon
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First, I forgot to mention that the title miserem me! is a little ambiguous. Initially I thought it was a mistake for miserum me (accusative of exclamation). Then I realized it might be subj. pres. of misero hence "Let me feel sory for myself!" or maybe, moving back a few decades, "(It's Not My Party But) I Can Cry If I Want To."
If it's the latter, let me recommend mei miseret me which, if I'm not mistaken, is a good way of saying "I feel sorry for myself." Also, it has a nasty batch of alliteration, which seems to further what you're doing. finis illius sit.
-ficus, I'm guessing, works much as cauda does - the imagery is vivid, to say the least...!
And should I assume that ira pace multo uino are all ablatives of manner with an implied cum - thus, "angrily, tranquilly, wine-imbibingly, I whine how love is a bitter thing" (loosely)?
David
If it's the latter, let me recommend mei miseret me which, if I'm not mistaken, is a good way of saying "I feel sorry for myself." Also, it has a nasty batch of alliteration, which seems to further what you're doing. finis illius sit.
-nice: furorem is a bit better than deleritatem, methinks, unless you're looking for out-of-the-way diction.femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illa ficus quae illa gustat
intro iactat ui furorem
-ficus, I'm guessing, works much as cauda does - the imagery is vivid, to say the least...!
I still don't see how triste works in the prose paraphrase. Is it "I sing that love is a sad thing..." or, perhaps, should it be tristis (note the gender): "Sad, and smashed, I sing that love..."?triste et multo cum uino cano amorem esse iram et pacem
or:
ira pace multo uino
tristem amorem esse cano
And should I assume that ira pace multo uino are all ablatives of manner with an implied cum - thus, "angrily, tranquilly, wine-imbibingly, I whine how love is a bitter thing" (loosely)?
I just found a neat - and cheap - paperback anthology of medieval Latin lyrics, including a substantial number of the carmina burana. Not as fun reading, I'm sure, as hearing with two guitars. You're referring to a reduction of Carl Orff's orchestration, I'm guessing?speaking of carmina burana, my band plays a reduced-to-two-guitars version of 'o fortuna'. it's really fun to play. and speaking of 'fun', it was hell to write, but I'm glad it's not hell to read.
As ever, my limited knowledge and (at least until I leave the country in June) unlimited time is at your disposalthanks for the help and suggestions.
David
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mei miseret me, then.
well I wish you, quite ahead of time, the best of luck in whichever far-away place you find yourself in.
aye. it's a tree, so it's similar to malus, and it reminds me of Dante's raising of the fig, so i thought it appropriate.-ficus, I'm guessing, works much as cauda does - the imagery is vivid, to say the least...!
at first it was supposed to mean 'I whine [haha] sadly[with triste as an adv.] and wit lotsa wine that love is wrath and peace',(I'm curious as to the best way to say this particular idea.) but with ira pacem multo uino - tristem amorem esse cano It was supposed to mean 'I whine angrily peacefully drunkenlythat love is sad'.I still don't see how triste works in the prose paraphrase. Is it "I sing that love is a sad thing..." or, perhaps, should it be tristis (note the gender): "Sad, and smashed, I sing that love..."?
And should I assume that ira pace multo uino are all ablatives of manner with an implied cum - thus, "angrily, tranquilly, wine-imbibingly, I whine how love is a bitter thing" (loosely)?
yes. which, sadly, doesnt measure up to the full version's ankles. all those dissonances would sound horrible on guitar (not to mention we'd need about twenty or so with four part vocal harmonies. )You're referring to a reduction of Carl Orff's orchestration, I'm guessing?
well I wish you, quite ahead of time, the best of luck in whichever far-away place you find yourself in.