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miserem me!

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miserem me!

Postby Deudeditus » Fri May 12, 2006 3:04 pm

I've decided to give up on classical poetry (or any thought of it) until I can have an actual person read it to me (e.g. a teacher :D ). Anyway, this sounds like and feels like Cattus Petasatus (which takes example from medieval stuff like Stabat Mater, etc.) I make no pretense of this carmen being well-rythmed or composed, or even of it being truly mediaeval. It's just what I threw together (thankfully with no ka-bar or ink! :lol: ) multo uino.

enjoy

amor quis est hic inuadens
meam mentem, mihi nocens?
is amabilis est osus,
uitam delet meam amaram

ardens ego interemo
amor! amor! Vae te malum!
quamquam odi te nunc dico
cauda ludos mauult tuos

femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illud quibus illa morit
iactat ui deleritatem

feminam amo sed me odit
ea ridet tum relinquit
iram pacem multo uino
triste amorem ësse cano


in renaissance (is that spelled right?) madrigals (either english or italian, or both... not exactly sure), 'to die' meant not 'to have the wind pass from ones body' (now i understand why 'morior' appears passive), but 'to climax'. just a little fyi in case you didn't know.
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Postby bellum paxque » Fri May 12, 2006 7:47 pm

Having taken a course or two on Renaissance literature, I well appreciate the constant puns on "die" and "climax." It's almost as bad (well, good, depending on attitude) as the cuckold gags.

Here's a blow by blow reading.

amor quis est hic inuadens
meam mentem, mihi nocens?
is amabilis est osus,
uitam delet meam amaram


I like the slight pun on amaram - looks like amare and cognates, but really has the opposite meaning (bitter). The point, perhaps?

ardens ego interemo
amor! amor! Vae te malum!
quamquam odi te nunc dico
cauda ludos mauult tuos


-Is there an object for interemo (kill, destroy)? Also, I think interimo (vowel shift in compound verb) may be more common.
-And... does cauda mean what I think it means...?

femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illud quibus illa morit
iactat ui deleritatem


-velam isn't a word as far as I can tell - do you mean veniam (from veniam dare, to have mercy on, to be gracious to)? Perhaps confused with vela dare (from velum), to set sail?
-I'm thrown off by illud quibus illa morit / iactat vi deleritatem. I can't figure it out. First of all, morit for moritur? It's deponent, as you mention later on. and what's illud quibus? I'll venture a guess on the rest: "...she dies / she violently flings insanity"

feminam amo sed me odit
ea ridet tum relinquit
iram pacem multo uino
triste amorem ësse cano


FIne here, but I'm not sure what iram pacem is doing. Is there an implied esse there, to match the last line? So, "rage is peace--with a lot of wine, I sing, and love is sad"?

Fun little poem. Until quantity becomes natural to our ears, rhyming Latin is so much more accessible. Check out the carmina burana (especially the drinking songs) if you haven't already. (Here, for instance: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/carm.bur.html)

-David
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Postby Deudeditus » Mon May 15, 2006 3:35 pm

interemo[r]. typo. arrgh.

as for amaram, aye. 'twas the point, the similarity.

cauda... it depends on what you think it means.. but you're probably right.

uela- *covers face in horror*

illud quibus illa morit

you got me.. I did, in fact forget mori to be a deponent, seeing as I haven't really learned about them yet. how's this?

femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illa ficus quae illa gustat
intro iactat ui furorem


iram[,] pacem multo uino
triste amorem esse cano

triste et multo cum uino cano amorem esse iram et pacem

or:
ira pace multo uino
tristem amorem esse cano


just thought of that right now..

Fun little poem. Until quantity becomes natural to our ears, rhyming Latin is so much more accessible. Check out the carmina burana (especially the drinking songs) if you haven't already.

speaking of carmina burana, my band plays a reduced-to-two-guitars version of 'o fortuna'. it's really fun to play. and speaking of 'fun', it was hell to write, but I'm glad it's not hell to read. :lol:

thanks for the help and suggestions.

-Jon
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Postby bellum paxque » Tue May 16, 2006 9:38 pm

First, I forgot to mention that the title miserem me! is a little ambiguous. Initially I thought it was a mistake for miserum me (accusative of exclamation). Then I realized it might be subj. pres. of misero hence "Let me feel sory for myself!" or maybe, moving back a few decades, "(It's Not My Party But) I Can Cry If I Want To."

If it's the latter, let me recommend mei miseret me which, if I'm not mistaken, is a good way of saying "I feel sorry for myself." Also, it has a nasty batch of alliteration, which seems to further what you're doing. finis illius sit.

femina autem caudam amabit
malo semper uelam dabit
illa ficus quae illa gustat
intro iactat ui furorem


-nice: furorem is a bit better than deleritatem, methinks, unless you're looking for out-of-the-way diction.
-ficus, I'm guessing, works much as cauda does - the imagery is vivid, to say the least...!

triste et multo cum uino cano amorem esse iram et pacem

or:
ira pace multo uino
tristem amorem esse cano


I still don't see how triste works in the prose paraphrase. Is it "I sing that love is a sad thing..." or, perhaps, should it be tristis (note the gender): "Sad, and smashed, I sing that love..."?

And should I assume that ira pace multo uino are all ablatives of manner with an implied cum - thus, "angrily, tranquilly, wine-imbibingly, I whine how love is a bitter thing" (loosely)?

speaking of carmina burana, my band plays a reduced-to-two-guitars version of 'o fortuna'. it's really fun to play. and speaking of 'fun', it was hell to write, but I'm glad it's not hell to read.


I just found a neat - and cheap - paperback anthology of medieval Latin lyrics, including a substantial number of the carmina burana. Not as fun reading, I'm sure, as hearing with two guitars. You're referring to a reduction of Carl Orff's orchestration, I'm guessing?

thanks for the help and suggestions.


As ever, my limited knowledge and (at least until I leave the country in June) unlimited time is at your disposal

David
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Postby Deudeditus » Tue May 16, 2006 11:04 pm

mei miseret me, then.
:D
-ficus, I'm guessing, works much as cauda does - the imagery is vivid, to say the least...!


aye. it's a tree, so it's similar to malus, and it reminds me of Dante's raising of the fig, so i thought it appropriate.
I still don't see how triste works in the prose paraphrase. Is it "I sing that love is a sad thing..." or, perhaps, should it be tristis (note the gender): "Sad, and smashed, I sing that love..."?

And should I assume that ira pace multo uino are all ablatives of manner with an implied cum - thus, "angrily, tranquilly, wine-imbibingly, I whine how love is a bitter thing" (loosely)?


at first it was supposed to mean 'I whine [haha] sadly[with triste as an adv.] and wit lotsa wine that love is wrath and peace',(I'm curious as to the best way to say this particular idea.) but with ira pacem multo uino - tristem amorem esse cano It was supposed to mean 'I whine angrily peacefully drunkenlythat love is sad'.
You're referring to a reduction of Carl Orff's orchestration, I'm guessing?


yes. which, sadly, doesnt measure up to the full version's ankles. all those dissonances would sound horrible on guitar (not to mention we'd need about twenty or so with four part vocal harmonies. :wink: :cry: )

well I wish you, quite ahead of time, the best of luck in whichever far-away place you find yourself in.
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