edonnelly wrote:I wish I understood verse well enough to benefit from this interesting work.
Statistical analysis of poetry, hmmm, I don't know why, but it feels like the kind of thing Bardo might have an interesting opinion on.
1%homeless wrote:Maybe a particles article next?
Edit: In case it matters, the file name lost an n.
auctor wrote:An interesting and thought-provoking essay but I wonder whether you have you done the subject full justice yet. I get the impression that you are suggesting that certain words fit in certain places in a line more often than not due to their prosodic shape rather than their 'emphatic' purpose.
If this is the case shouldn't your tables also indicate the relative emphasis of the words that you are testing?
I wonder how many times an epithet, or synonym, has been used simply because the 'bald' word wouldn't fit at the spot where the writer would've preferred.
Your proposal would appear to throw the technique of enjambment out of the window.
I don't believe that ancient versifiers were slaves to the metre in same way that modern (or more accurately, non-native speakers) are-
-they wrote as they did because they felt certain word orders, or positions in a verse, did carry more emphasis.
auctor wrote: I shall try again after the w/e when I've read O'Neill and the follow up articles.
auctor wrote:To wit, I believe that the first piece of information in a Greek sentence IS more emphasised than what follows, be that sentence prose or verse
(despite your dismissal of Dennison's scholarship elsewhere on these forums) . The last piece of information supplied is also somewhat emphasised (the listener has been waiting for it),
I am also a little concerned that we appear to have no knowledge of the ancients being aware of these statistical data. If verse were written in the fashion that you suggest, presumably taking O'Neill's lead, wouldn't we have some reference to these data somewhere? Could such a valuable piece of info. have become lost?
In conclusion, I agree absolutely that prosody dictates word position in quantative verse; but I cannot accept that 'emphasis' should be ignored--
auctor wrote:O' Neill, it seems to me, makes no such suggestion about 'emphasis', but you do. Rather he admits in his opening paragraph that he has made no attempt to consider anything other than the prosodic shape of individual words. I accept that certain shapes of words appear more regularly in some places of a verse. But, and in this I disagree with your suggestion, poets DO use position and word order to emphasise certain words--I am convinced of that.
For you to back up your assertion needs much more work: work that I would be interested in following up, but not until next academic year I'm afraid.
I know that I should no more mix messages than I should metaphors, but your comment that 'many professors haven't read the entire Iliad' vel sim, is preposterous. taught by two professors,
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