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Homeric Greek pronunciation.

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Homeric Greek pronunciation.

Postby Sesquipedalian » Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:46 am

Hello all,

After getting into Latin i've decided I would also like to get into ancient Greek. After reading around ive decided with Homeric Greek as a starter. However like with Latin, I really want to get my pronunciation sorted before really getting into it. Even though I have Pharrs Homeric Greek and he spells out the pronunciation, id prefer an audio site with the real basics..such as how each letter is pronounced and also the 'names' of each letter. For example in english a 'W' is called 'double you'.

Ive found a site on Latin which was amazing. Heres the link to show you what i'm talking about...

http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/ ... habet.html

It lists the 'names' of each letter, as well as the pronunciation of each letter and how they change in certain words..again with all audio examples. I also know pronunciation in ancient greek is not entirely straight forward..with different dialects, and debates etc..but any sites or information on where I could hear these basics concepts would be appreciated.

Thanks!
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Postby swiftnicholas » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:07 pm

Hi Sesquipedalian,

I don't think there is a website with pronunciations for each letter like that (?), but there are some recordings available of Homeric recitation. The only link I have right now is a great document by William Annis (a Textkit moderator) on his website:

http://www.aoidoi.org/articles/epic/recite.pdf

He explains how he recites the first 16 lines of the Iliad, and he gives audio examples for each line. It was made specifically for a group working through Pharr's book.

~N
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Postby spiphany » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:15 pm

The SORGLL website has a recording by Stephen Daitz which I think goes through the reconstructed classical pronunciation letter by letter.

http://www.rhapsodes.fll.vt.edu/Greek.htm
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
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Postby Sesquipedalian » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:06 pm

Hello,

Thanks for the links... that link with Stephen Daitz is interesting as he says each letter. He pronounces it how I would. Seems very 'english'.

Is this how everyone else pronounces them...Ive actually heard them pronounced radically different to this on some 'ancient greek' sites. This is how I pronounce them, but would like to know how the ancient greeks would of pronounced them. I'm assuming not like this?

Thanks

Alpha - al'fa
Beta - bay'ta
Gamma - gam'ma
Delta - del'ta
Epsilon - ehp'see'lon
Zeta - zay'tah
Eta - ay'ta
Theta - Thay'ta
Iota - eye'o'ta
Kappa - cap'pa
Lambda - lam'da
Mu - myew
Nu - new
Xi - zi
Omicron - ohm'a'cron
Pi - pie
Rho - ro
Sigma - sig'ma
Tau - tor
Upsilon - ewp'sil'on
Phi - figh
Chi - kigh
Psi - sigh
Omega - o'meeg'a
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Postby GlottalGreekGeek » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:46 pm

You are using the erasmian pronounciation, or something close to it. The people on this website tend to follow the pronounciation described in Allen's Vox Graeca (a book), though not everybody. I believe that Vox Graeca is the main basis for the pronounciation on the Aoidoi site (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Postby annis » Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:52 pm

GlottalGreekGeek wrote: I believe that Vox Graeca is the main basis for the pronounciation on the Aoidoi site (correct me if I'm wrong).


That is correct.

Even though I use the reconstructed pronunciation, when I recite the Greek alphabet, I'm stuck with Erasmian. The Greek alphabet is used for a lot of things, and if I go around pronouncing the name of Π correctly, there is much tittering, though not as much when bonsai-ists here me pronounce Pinus sylvatica in reconstructed Latin.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Sesquipedalian » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:51 am

I see...this would be much easier if I could cut and paste Annis's knowledge into my brain *sigh*.

From what ive read.."Vox Graeca uses Attic pronunciation? Since I'm going to start with Pharrs Homeric Greek... just curious if they use the same pronunciation..or is there any differences between the pronunciation of Homeric and Attic?

Is Vox Graeca considered the most 'accurate'..as in, the way it is considered the Ancient greeks would have spoken? Im assuming there isnt a download of Vox Graeca on the net as ive looked through the download pages on textkit to no avail?

Thanks all.
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Postby annis » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:41 pm

Sesquipedalian wrote:From what ive read.."Vox Graeca uses Attic pronunciation? Since I'm going to start with Pharrs Homeric Greek... just curious if they use the same pronunciation..or is there any differences between the pronunciation of Homeric and Attic?


There were differences, but those would have been fairly minor, relating to a few vowel sounds, υ, ου, ει.

Is Vox Graeca considered the most 'accurate'..as in, the way it is considered the Ancient greeks would have spoken?


It's a good account, and will mention the disputes. Anyone who decides to use the reconstructed pronunciation still has to make some (educated) choices.

Im assuming there isnt a download of Vox Graeca on the net as ive looked through the download pages on textkit to no avail?


Nope — the third edition was copyrighted in 1987.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Bardo de Saldo » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:00 pm

Why is "pie" for pi and "baytah" for beta called Erasmian? I don't see how a Dutchman who wrote in Latin would have used English long vowels (diphthongs) to pronounce his Greek vowels.
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Postby annis » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:21 pm

Bardo de Saldo wrote:Why is "pie" for pi and "baytah" for beta called Erasmian? I don't see how a Dutchman who wrote in Latin would have used English long vowels (diphthongs) to pronounce his Greek vowels.


Though his name is attached to that pronunciation, he himself didn't invent it. He wrong a long paper on the subject in the 1500s. Work trying to recover the ancient pronunciation started in the 1400s, and that effort was popular in England.

Then came the Great Vowel Shift. The reconstruction of ancient Greek pronunciation was dragged along.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Sesquipedalian » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:35 am

I was just going over some Latin on the wheelock website and i noticed when he says the names of the Greek letters they sound quite odd.

For example the word Zeta is pronounced Zzdehr’ta .. you can listen to it at the bottom of this page..

http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/ ... habet.html

Chi is pronounced Key, and Theta is Tay’ta....both of them are on this page..

http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/ ... nants.html

Is there a reconstructured pronounciation of the Ancient Greek alphabet? (The names not the actual sounds of each).. Attic or Homeric? Or does everyone just use the erasmian pronunciation? I think GlottalGreekGeek mentioned there is a proper pronunciation in Vox Graeca of the names of each letter? Just curious if this information on the names of the alphabet is on a website somewhere.

Thanks all.
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Postby Socrates the Cyborg » Fri May 26, 2006 12:59 am

Ok, so I am curious how this reading fits into the discussion here. Is this the "Vox Graeca" reading?

http://wiredforbooks.org/iliad/
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Postby annis » Fri May 26, 2006 1:11 am

Socrates the Cyborg wrote:Ok, so I am curious how this reading fits into the discussion here. Is this the "Vox Graeca" reading?


Nope, this is Erasmian, and unmetrical to boot.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby minus273 » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:31 pm

But the sound surely rox.
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Postby hyptia » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:52 pm

That Wheelock's site is really great! :D I wish the Greek based sites offered Flash audio (or wave or MP3), as like many web surfers I am reluctant to install Real Player.

FTR, the way zeta, chi, phi, and theta are pronounced there is pretty much the same as I pronounce their sounds, just based on reading the alphabet sections in various texts.
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