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JWW excercises 133 and 143

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JWW excercises 133 and 143

Postby Hammurabi » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:39 am

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Re: JWW excercises 133 and 143

Postby spiphany » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:32 pm

IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
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Postby Hammurabi » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:01 pm

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Postby spiphany » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:24 am

IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
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Postby annis » Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:48 pm

William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Bert » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:51 pm

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Postby annis » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:10 am

William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Bert » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:08 am

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Postby chad » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:48 am

i just saw this, i hardly have time to check out textkit anymore, but i give a ref for this (final word emphasised in prose) at the top of page 10 here:

http://www.freewebs.com/mhninaeide/Ilia ... xt2006.pdf
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Postby annis » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:07 pm

chad wrote:i just saw this, i hardly have time to check out textkit anymore, but i give a ref for this (final word emphasised in prose) at the top of page 10 here:


Denniston?! That makes me even more suspicious.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby chad » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:21 pm

hi will, well denniston has said X, what makes you say X is wrong?

(apart from the fact that X was said by your favourite classicist) :)
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Postby annis » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:30 pm

chad wrote:hi will, well denniston has said X, what makes you say X is wrong?


Not at all, but his track record in terms of actual linguistic insight is, in my opinion, very poor. When he's the only reference, extra checking is required. :)

(apart from the fact that X was said by your favourite classicist) :)


Who said what where?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Bert » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:21 am

With the help of a B-Greek member I've found one discussion concerning emphasis in the Greek sentence. Here follows a link to part of the B-Greek archives.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... html#22815
Towards the bottom of the page, (14th from the bottom) is the first post of a thread called; John 14:6 fronting
Three or four replies follow.
( I don't know Denniston, whose opinion seems suspect to William, but I have high regard for the opinion of both Iver Larsen and Carl Conrad, who btw hold somewhat opposing positions.)
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Postby annis » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:37 am

William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
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Postby Bert » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:55 pm

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Postby annis » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:36 am

William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
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Postby Bert » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:40 am

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Postby annis » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:33 pm

Bert wrote:Is topicalizing the same as emphasizing?


No. Here I use the term just to mean that the verb has been shifted out of its usual spot into the topic position. The topic simply acts to signal to listeners what the coming comment is about, and I don't think that's usually going to be emphasized.

William, don't misunderstand me. I am not disagreeing with what you are saying. I am just trying to learn, but this topic may be out of my league yet.


And I'm doing a very poor job of explaining it.

I've emailed Prof. Dik to see if she happens to have handouts for talks she might give on her word order work that I could use to produce a summary. In any case, I'm going to leave this post alone for a while and work up an overview of Dik's book — including better explanations of the technical vocabulary — with some more examples. That'll be more useful than me dribbling out bits and pieces of the theory.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Bert » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:04 am

Thanks for the discussion so far.
I hope you are successful writing a summary. I would probably get more use out of a summary with examples than out of reading the book.
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