Problem with reading matter, page 212

[Andrus]

Saluēte omnēs,

I would like to ask for help with the following phrase of with the reading matter at page 212 of the book

http://www.textkit.com/files/BLD_Latin_ ... f#page=222

“Saepe erat cum patre in cÅ«riÄ￾; quae rÄ“s effÄ“cit ut summÅ￾s reÄ« pÅ«blicae virÅ￾s et audÄ«ret et vidÄ“ret.â€￾

where I’m having some difficulty in understand.

The first part is easy, “He often was with his father at the Curia,…â€￾

But after that I can’t see to work out the meaning. D’Ooge states in the notes that this is an object clause of result, but even with this help I can’t understand.

I think that what is making me totally lost is “quaeâ€￾, as I can’t see what it is. If it is a relative pronoun then it should be referring to “cÅ«raâ€￾. If it is an indefinite pronoun then it could mean:

“… some business made PÅ«blius both hear and see the greatest men of the Republic.â€￾

But somehow doesn’t seem right to me.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Andrus

[ingrid70]

I don't know the english term, in Dutch it's called relatieve aansluiting (relative connection?). A relative pronoun can have a similar meaning as a conjunction and a relative pronoun together, i.e.: qui = et qui.

quae res: et quae res: and this thing (i.e. visiting the curia) made him hear and see famous man.

At least, this is how I saw this piece. Others may be more enlightening...

Ingrid

[Andrus]

Saluē Ingrid70,

And thanks; your suggestion makes a lot more sense then my translation. I always thought the relatives referring to one word of the previous phrase, and never that they could refer to the all phrase.

Once more thanks for your help,

Andrus

[runicus]

“Saepe erat cum patre in cÅ«riÄ￾; quae rÄ“s effÄ“cit ut summÅ￾s reÄ« pÅ«blicae virÅ￾s et audÄ«ret et vidÄ“ret.â€￾

"He was often with his father at the senate house,which enabled him to(lit. which matter caused that he could)hear and see those greatest men of the republic"

I have done this part so long ago that I even didn't recall this,coz I didn't pay much attention,and just made an attempt to understand the meaning of the text.

Cura ut valeas,amice

RVNICVS

[Andrus]

Saluē Runice,

Thanks for your help, it makes a lot more sense then the way I was translating it.

I usually read the all text and try to understand it. But then I analyze every sentence since more then once my first impression is wrong in some passages, maybe because I’m Portuguese and I’m tempt to use the meaning of the Portuguese word that is near the Latin word. To give you an example in your post about the passage:

“Quem ad locum…â€￾

It took me a huge amount of time to stop thinking of “Quemâ€￾ as “whoâ€￾.

I don’t remember that in the book there were other examples of the relative referring to the previous phrase and not to a single word, and that also made it more difficult to get the right meaning. But then maybe I’m wrong, since my Latin studies have been greatly slowed by lack of time I have start to forget some of it.

I guess you have finish the D’Ooge book by know. If you don’t mind I ask, what materials are you using to study Latin?

Propter auxilium tuum grÄ￾tiÄ￾s tibi agÅ￾.

Valē amīce,

Andrus