argh- translating martial

[Fabiola]

I'm frustrated.

I've never translated Latin poetry before, so figured I'd translate some of the Martial in Wheelock's "for fun".

Well I'm not at all sure if this translation is correct, can someone help me with this? I don't understand how Latin poetry works, and it seems that sentence order is completely set aside..

Non cenat sine apro noster, Tite, Caecilianus:
bellum convivam Caecilianus habet!

(Martial 7.59)

My translation:

Titus, he does not dine without our pig, Caecilianus:
He considers Caecilianus a charming dinner-guest!

[Kasper]

it seems that sentence order is completely set aside..

Absolutely. (well not completely - the positions of words imply emphasis)

You need to have a look at the declesion of Caecilianus in both sentences. Nominative or accusative?

[Fabiola]

It's nominative..

Titus, Caecilianus does not dine without our pig:
Caecilianus considers (it?) a charming dinner-guest!

Is that right? Can you add an "it" (or "him") there in the second sentence?

Thanks for your help!

[Lucus Eques]

Watch out for "noster." It would have to be "nostrÅ￾" in order to go with "aprÅ￾," wouldn't it?

The "it" or "him" can definitely be added.

[Fabiola]

gah!

okay if this isn't right...

Titus, our Caecilianus does not dine without the pig:
Caecilianus considers him a charming dinner-guest!

[Lucus Eques]

Pulchrē.

[bellum paxque]

Ha ha... unaware that conviva was of common gender, I had a different rendering. I assumed that convivam was the complement of bellum. Text and translation, then:

Non cenat sine apro noster, Tite, Caecilianus:
bellum convivam Caecilianus habet!

Titus, that Caecilianus of ours doesn't dine until the pig's been butchered:
He's fond of keeping War on the guest list!

I almost like mine better. No doubt, Romans patricians weren't as good sportsmen as English country gents. You've got to forgive me: I've never met the Latin word for "the chase," and besides, I watched Renoir's La Règle du Jeu (Rules of the Game) just a week ago.

-David

[Lucus Eques]

I almost like mine better. No doubt, Romans patricians weren't as good sportsmen as English country gents. You've got to forgive me: I've never met the Latin word for "the chase,"

VÄ“nÄ￾tiÅ￾.

[Fabiola]

Pulchrē.

huzzah!

thanks for "all ya'lls" help.

[Skylax]

Had you understood the poem as follows ?

Titus, our Caecilianus does not dine without the pig:

I would say "without a pig". Then everybody understands "a pig... as a meal."
Thus yes, pork meat is his favourite meal. ok.

Caecilianus considers him a charming dinner-guest!

I would say "So Caecilianus has got a charming dinner-guest". The meaning is now that this man is only worth dining with a pig as his guest. That's what they call "reframing". The pig's role has been "reframed" in a sarcastic way.

As usual, it is English that matters