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argh- translating martial

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argh- translating martial

Postby Fabiola » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:39 am

I'm frustrated.

I've never translated Latin poetry before, so figured I'd translate some of the Martial in Wheelock's "for fun".

Well I'm not at all sure if this translation is correct, can someone help me with this? I don't understand how Latin poetry works, and it seems that sentence order is completely set aside..

Non cenat sine apro noster, Tite, Caecilianus:
bellum convivam Caecilianus habet!

(Martial 7.59)

My translation:

Titus, he does not dine without our pig, Caecilianus:
He considers Caecilianus a charming dinner-guest!
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Re: argh- translating martial

Postby Kasper » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:49 am

Fabiola wrote:it seems that sentence order is completely set aside..


Absolutely. (well not completely - the positions of words imply emphasis)

You need to have a look at the declesion of Caecilianus in both sentences. Nominative or accusative?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Postby Fabiola » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:25 pm

It's nominative..

Titus, Caecilianus does not dine without our pig:
Caecilianus considers (it?) a charming dinner-guest!

Is that right? Can you add an "it" (or "him") there in the second sentence?

Thanks for your help!
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Postby Lucus Eques » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:37 pm

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Postby Fabiola » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:39 am

:shock:

gah!

okay if this isn't right...

Titus, our Caecilianus does not dine without the pig:
Caecilianus considers him a charming dinner-guest!
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Postby Lucus Eques » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:39 am

Pulchrē. :-)
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Postby bellum paxque » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:26 am

Ha ha... unaware that conviva was of common gender, I had a different rendering. I assumed that convivam was the complement of bellum. Text and translation, then:

Non cenat sine apro noster, Tite, Caecilianus:
bellum convivam Caecilianus habet!


Titus, that Caecilianus of ours doesn't dine until the pig's been butchered:
He's fond of keeping War on the guest list!

I almost like mine better. No doubt, Romans patricians weren't as good sportsmen as English country gents. You've got to forgive me: I've never met the Latin word for "the chase," and besides, I watched Renoir's La Règle du Jeu (Rules of the Game) just a week ago.

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Postby Lucus Eques » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:57 pm

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Postby Fabiola » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:17 am

Lucus Eques wrote:Pulchrē. :-)


huzzah! :D

thanks for "all ya'lls" help. :)
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Postby Skylax » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:56 pm

Had you understood the poem as follows ?

Fabiola wrote:Titus, our Caecilianus does not dine without the pig:

I would say "without a pig". Then everybody understands "a pig... as a meal."
Thus yes, pork meat is his favourite meal. ok.

Caecilianus considers him a charming dinner-guest!

I would say "So Caecilianus has got a charming dinner-guest". The meaning is now that this man is only worth dining with a pig as his guest. That's what they call "reframing". The pig's role has been "reframed" in a sarcastic way.

As usual, it is English that matters
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