I enjoy the methodology Orberg applies greatly. However, I find myself scratching my head and re-reading passages after long breaks before some of the meaning is clear to me.
My questions will follow shortly...
Thanks to all who contribute!

Mark
mfranks wrote:One of the frustrations is that there are no comprehensive dictionaries/tools that you can look up a word form if you don't know the stem. This is a problem mostly with irregular verbs.
Am I correct in my thinking that baculo is ablative therefore I can tanslate as "with" the staff/club?
Why is the conjuction et used in this sentance? The placement of this conjunction throws me for a loop.
I feel like I shuffle things around until they fit my english syntax to understand the latin... Is this a bad habit I should nip in the butt?
Any suggestions?
mfranks wrote:I feel like I shuffle things around until they fit my english syntax to understand the latin... Is this a bad habit I should nip in the butt?
The construction of this sentance bothers me:
Dominus servos malos baculo verberat; itaque servi mali dominum et baculum eius timent.
My mind translates as follows (after a lot of shuffling):
Master's bad servants are beaten with the staff/club; therefore, the master's bad servants are afraid of him.
Am I correct in my thinking that baculo is ablative therefore I can tanslate as "with" the staff/club?
Why is the conjuction et used in this sentance? The placement of this conjunction throws me for a loop.
However, I'm very big on the idea of learning via audio and so IF there a way to exatract the audio portions from the CD for eventual use on a .MP3 player, I would change my mind quickly about this and other computer CD programs with audio content.
Nobis perseverantia difficilia vincenda sunt; we must overcome difficulties by perseverance. I am not suggesting that you are not a hard worker or anything - I'm sure that you are are or you would not be taking latin. My only thought is this: latin can be darn tough and sometimes I myself have wanted to give up. No doubt you have other stuff going on your life - that's good. But whatever you do, I urge you to stay with this project for the long haul - even if sometimes it seems as if we have to learn each rule and word sescenties (six hundred times). Once again, good luck.
Te magno ingenio studioque iuvenem es, ut puto.
As I see it, you are a youth of great character and energy (zeal).
"Qui magnum pecuniam habent ornamenta emunt et feminis dant; ceteri rursus abeunt."
Those who have lots of money buy jewelry and give them to [thier]women; others [those without lots of money], on the contrary, go away."
abi.t V 6 1 PRES ACTIVE IND 3 S
abeo, abire, abivi(ii), abitus V INTRANS [XXXAO]
depart, go away; go off, go forth; pass away, die, disappear; be changed;
Multae feminae quae in hac via ambulant ante tabernam Albini consistunt, nam feminae ornamentis delectantur. Eae quae magnam pecuniam habent multa aornamenta emunt. Quae nullam aut parvam pecuniam habent ornamenta aspiciunt tantum, non emunt. Etiam viri multi ad hanc tabernam adeunt. Qui magnum pecuniam habent ornamenta emunt et feminis dant; ceteri rursus abeunt.
Many women, who walk on the street stop in front of Albini's [jewelry] store, for jewelry please women. Those [women] who have lots of money buy lots of jewelry. Those who don't [have money] or little money stop and look [quite a bit] at the jewelry, [but] don't buy. Also, lots of men, buy [jewelry] at this jewelry store. Those that have lots of money buy jewelry and give them to women; others, on the contrary stay away [or refrain altogether].
mfranks wrote:Any comments?
Capitulum Sextum Decimum - Tempestas
Italia inter duo maria interest, quorum alternum, quod supra Italiam situm est, 'mare Superum' sive 'Hadriaticum' appellatur, alterum, infra Italiam situm, 'mare Inferum' sive 'Tuscum'.
Saccus portantur a servo.
Tum naves et nautae in mare merguntur.
Tum naves et nautae in mare mergent.
mfranks wrote:Why is 'inter' and 'interest' used in the first clause of the sentence? Both words mean "between".
Tum naves et nautae in mare merguntur.
Then the boat and the sailors plunged into the sea.
How is this passive?
Isn't the following equivalent?
Tum naves et nautae in mare mergent.
I've noticed in a lot of the Neo Latin books of Children's Classics such as Ferdinandus Taurus or Virent Ova! Viret Perna!! for example, they use alot of the passive forms of the verbs without ab/a.
Mater Ferdinandi, quae erat vacca, interdum angebatur, verita ne solitarius sine amicis esset.
Statim Uxur cultrum acutissimum coruscans videtur!
Dapsne mea respuetur,
Si sub tecto suggeretur?
Defessus arboris in umbra meridiabatur.
Brian wrote:Savete iterum
A couple of words in bold are giving me trouble.
Lines 10-11 page 163 of Familia Romana
Sed cur sanguis de naso fluit Marco? Sanguis ei de naso fluit , quod Marcus a Sexto pulsatus est.
Is Marco dative or ablative? I want to say "of Marcus" but would not that call for the genitive? Eiis the dative but why? I don't like moving on until I've got it.
Brian
That may have been more of a grammatical explanation than you were looking for, but I hope it's helpful.
mfranks wrote:Salve Amici!
I've been reading all the posts in this Forum on the topic of Classical or Medieval? A topic which has been quite amusing. I won't weigh in here since my question is around why is it that (in my view) there are inconsistencies in pronunciation of vowels in the "Classical" pronunciation of Latin words?
I happen to have purchased the Audio CD from Focus Publishing for Lingua Latina Pars I - Familia Romana which includes every single chapter of the book - it's absolutely wonderful! As I mentioned earlier in this Topic, I have also supplemented my Lingua Latina study with the Cambridge Latin Course. And likewise, I have purchased the audio for all four volumes of that series.
Listening to someone read (LL) or act out (CLC) in the Latin lanuage really helps me with the auditory aspects of learning Latin. And it's really cool to start to understand conversations. However, for me, much more difficult! I have to listen over and over again as my mind slowly is able to distingish words when spoken at "natural" or "colloquial" speed. It's quite encouraging to see progress for a "middle-aged" dog like me...
Finally, back to my main reason for posting... I have noticed inconsistencies or what at least appear to be inconsistencies in pronunciation of the letter "u" or "V" capitalized.
Quick side-note #1: Why is the letter "u" changed to a "V" when capitalized?
Why is it that sometimes an un-marked (no macron) "u" is pronounced like "ooze" or "Zeus" and other times pronounced like "oh" or "most"?
There seems to be 3 distinct sounds that the letter "u" can have:
(1) uh like "duh" or "gutter"
(2) oh like "most" or "toast"
(3) ew like "dew" or "zoo"
The last one can be further divided by adding the french "u" which I can hear and say because of some french I took in high school and college. But for a native english speaker like myself, the French "u" seems to be a more "impassioned", and of "shorter" duration, than the english form.
Anyway, I digress a bit - forgive me.
If the correct pronounciation of "Quintus" is Quin-tews why isn't there a macron over the "u" - isn't this a long "u"???
Also, why is the word "numerus" pronounced num-er-ohs instead of num-er-ews?
Another example is "reprehendimur". I would exspect to pronounce this as re-pre-hen-di-mewr instead of re-pre-hen-di-more. Also, "tuus" correctly pronounced two-ohs, according to the LL audio.
My last example is less specific in terms of specific words... But I have noticed that many words which have the 1st person plural ending: -imus or -amus are pronounced ee-mohs or ah-mohs, respectively, while others are pronounced as I would expect: ee-mews or ah-mews.
[I added this last paragraph after being reminded while listening to one of my Cambridge audio CDs during my evening commute home from work this evening.]
Quick side-note #2: Does anyone known whether Hans H. Orberg, himself is the person reading on the audio?
I triple-checked these on the audio files to make sure I was correctly reprepresenting these pronunciations on the LL Audio. I noticed similar pronunciations on the Cambridge Audio as well - although, I noticed some other inconsisencies between the LL and CLC audio on some words shared in common.
There are other examples as well, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
Let me end here by saying that I understand there are inconsistencies in pronunciation in all languages. It just seems to me that if macrons are used to mark long vowels so that "we" can properly pronounce classical Latin then why aren't they used consistently. Also, are there other general rules of pronunciation that are not in the text books... that might apply in the cases above or others to provide a bit more predicability? I'm chuckling to myself here, as I know I asking some loaded questions.
Thank you all in advance as I always get great advice and explainations here from all you fine Latinists!
Warmest Regards,
Mark
I commend you for your pursuit of Italian! I am indeed writing such a book for Italian based on Lingua Latina; we'll see if it turns out well. Be wary of your Sicilian assistents; Sicilian is a completely different language than Italian, and the Sicilian accent is regarded as extremely low-class, unfortunately. Most modern Sicilians speak perfect standard Italian like everyone else, however, with a minimum of accent, but there is definitely a potential danger.
Misopogon wrote:I commend you for your pursuit of Italian! I am indeed writing such a book for Italian based on Lingua Latina; we'll see if it turns out well. Be wary of your Sicilian assistents; Sicilian is a completely different language than Italian, and the Sicilian accent is regarded as extremely low-class, unfortunately. Most modern Sicilians speak perfect standard Italian like everyone else, however, with a minimum of accent, but there is definitely a potential danger.
Salve Luce amice mi,
You have spent too much time with the "toscanacci", I am sure you drink HoHa Hola instead of Coca Cola![]()
I woulnd't say that Sicilian accent is regarded extremely low-class, it could be also funny or aristocratic, it depends.
Personally I like it, probably thanks to Camilleri's Inspector Montalbano (did you try to read it?). I am also curious to know which Italian regional accents you prefer.
Anyway, it is true that most expats and not only from Sicily, especially those that left in the 50'60' weren't much educated and they could speak only in dialect (I should say: regional language"), so they might not be the best teachers you can find, but I don't think it's the case and you, mfranks, will be exposed to a native speaker, that is a big advantage.in learning any language.
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