Textkit Logo

Help needed

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

Help needed

Postby Beatus » Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:04 pm

I found old talisman and there is following sentence written on it, anyone can help me to translate it?

Sapientia et virtus in domo eius et scentia omnium rerum manet apud eum in seculum seculi
Beatus
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:57 pm

Re: Help needed

Postby Kasper » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:19 pm

Beatus wrote:Sapientia et virtus in domo eius et scentia omnium rerum manet apud eum in seculum seculi


Wisdom and virtue in his house/home and knowledge* of all things remains with him for all times.

Is seculum seculi written like that or does it say saeculum saeculi? It won't matter for the translation, I'm just curious.


* assuming scentia is a typo for scientia.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Postby Deudeditus » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:23 pm

My closest guess would be:
Wisdom and virtue are in His and the knowledge of all things remains with Him (this is where I don't know how to translate) through the generation's generation (for ever?)
As I said, I'm not sure about seculum seculi but I'm pretty sure the rest is alright. And I capitalized "Him" b/c I figured that it was reffering to a deity of some kind... and that I would not offend this mystery diety.

BTW, what kind of talisman was it? I'm just curious b/c the prof. for my magic, witchcraft and religion class wants us to present to him any thing related to the class for discussion. Hope I helped a little. :D
User avatar
Deudeditus
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:15 am
Location: The world, man.

Postby Kasper » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:27 pm

Deudeditus wrote:
And I capitalized "Him" b/c I figured that it was reffering to a deity of some kind... and that I would not offend this mystery diety.

BTW, what kind of talisman was it? I'm just curious b/c the prof. for my magic, witchcraft and religion class wants us to present to him any thing related to the class for discussion. Hope I helped a little. :D


I would think it implies that wisdom, virtue, etc. will be with the person that has the talisman.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Help needed

Postby amans » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:13 am

Kasper wrote:
Beatus wrote:Sapientia et virtus in domo eius et scentia omnium rerum manet apud eum in seculum seculi


Wisdom and virtue in his house/home and knowledge* of all things remains with him for all times.


Hi

I wonder about the singular of the verb, manet. Obviously, both sapientia, virtus, and scientia are subjects. This would make for manent. A whole list of subjects, individually in the singular, can have a verb in the singular - but I thought scientia was plural?

I can see that your translation, Kasper, also uses the singular in 'remains'. Any thoughts on this?
amans
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:12 pm

Regarding old talisman translation

Postby Beatus » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:52 am

Thank you for helping me out with this translation.
To: Deudeditus - I have done some research on this talisman, although I had it just for couple of weeks, I believe this should be "Key of Solomon", but I am not sure yet.

To: Kasper - inscription reads as I have wrote " seculum seculi"

Thank you again for your help
Beatus
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:57 pm

Postby Deudeditus » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:42 pm

...I thought scientia was plural?...


scientia, -ae, f ( http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=scientia&ending= ).
The Key of Solomon is a magical grimoire written around the 16-17th centuries. If the talisman has anything to do with Clavicula Salomonis, then it would be written in late latin. that may help with the translation.

Could it mean then:
Wisdom and virtue remain in his house and (in his) knowledge(skill) of all things forever. (could in and eius apply to sapientia omnium rerum too?)
or
wisdm. and virt. are in his house and the knowledge of all things remains with him forever.

I also found apud me to mean "at my house" at the same wbsite as above. So could apud eum mean "at/in his house" as well?
User avatar
Deudeditus
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:15 am
Location: The world, man.

Postby Kasper » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:06 pm

Amans, I take "Sapientia et virtus in domo eius" almost as a separate sentence, the verb being implied. "manet" strictly speaking only applies to scientia.

"Could it mean then:
Wisdom and virtue remain in his house and (in his) knowledge(skill) of all things forever. (could in and eius apply to sapientia omnium rerum too?)"

Scientia is the subject of manet. If scientia was in the ablative case, as you suggest, then, as per Amans, sapientia et virtus would be the only subjects and definitely require a plural verb (manent).

"apud me" literaly is "at me" or "at my place". You could taken "apud eum" to mean the same I guess.. I don't think it really matters.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:01 am
Location: Melbourne

Postby Polymetis » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:54 pm

I would agree with Kasper that "Sapientia et virtus in domo eius" is a separate sentence as if: "Sapientia et virtus in domo eius [est]".
Polymetis
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:16 am

Postby Polymetis » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:17 am

Sorry, I ment "[sunt]" :oops:
Polymetis
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Help needed

Postby MikieMcdaniel » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:46 pm

I Have the same talisman, mines saculum saculi at the end.
but there's some crazy design on the back, anybody have a clue what it is?
MikieMcdaniel
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:38 pm


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Barry Hofstetter and 55 guests