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134

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134

Postby amans » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 pm

[face=spionic]xai/rete[/face]

I am working through White, and I have a question (I'll probably be back later with many more).

The sentence is from 134: [face=spionic]kai\ Tissafe/rnhj diaba/llei ton Ku=ron pro\j to\n a)delfo\n w(j e)pibouleu/ei au)tw|[/face]

My translation goes: and Tissaphernes slanders Cyrus ... that he is plotting against him.

My problems are:

- How would you translate [face=spionic]pro\j to\n a)delfo\n[/face]. I guess it is the accusative which surprises me here.

- I fail to see how [face=spionic]w(j[/face]-clause works with the rest. What does it express? Why does it not require the subjunctive?
amans
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Postby Paul » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:40 pm

Hi amans,

[face=SPIonic]pro\j to\n a)delfo\n[/face] = 'to his brother'.

For this use of [face=SPIonic]w(j[/face] see entry B in the middle LSJ.

Cordially,

Paul
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Re: 134

Postby Bert » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:52 pm

[face=SPIonic]to\n a)delfo/n[/face] is accusative because of the preposition [face=SPIonic]pro/j [/face].
He is slandering Cyrus toward his brother.
We don't say slandering 'toward' someone in English but it gets the point of the accusative across.
Did you expect to see the Gen. or the Dat.

I am working through White as well.
When I saw this sentence I figured [face=SPIonic]w(j[/face] meant as.
The footnote in White indicates that it should be 'that'. There is quite a difference in meaning here.
I don't know why it should have the subjunctive. It serves the same purpose as [face=SPIonic]o(/ti[/face]. If it said [face=SPIonic]w(j a)/n[/face] it would be followed by the subjunctive, just like [face=SPIonic]o(/tan [/face]would.
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Postby amans » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:22 am

Thanks a lot for your swift replies, Paul and Bert :D

With regard to the [face=spionic]wj [/face]-clause: I reckon it is a causal clause then: since he plots against him.

With regard to the [face=spionic]pro\j to\n a)delfo\n [/face]: yes, I expected the dative (thinking an indirect object would have been in place, had this not been a prepositional phrase).



post scriptum: how far have you come in White, Bert?
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Postby Bert » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:43 pm

amans wrote:

post scriptum: how far have you come in White, Bert?

I (we) just finished lesson 20.
I am going through it with the White-a reading group.
Paul replied while I was writing a reply, so I did not see his.
There was not realy a need for me to write anything in addition to what he wrote but it felt good that I was able to help someone with what I learned just a few weeks ago.
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Postby amans » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:05 am

Bert wrote:
amans wrote:

post scriptum: how far have you come in White, Bert?

I (we) just finished lesson 20.
I am going through it with the White-a reading group.


Nice. I am coming along, but it is sure a steep climb.

Paul replied while I was writing a reply, so I did not see his.


Has happened to me too in the Latin forum.

There was not realy a need for me to write anything in addition to what he wrote but it felt good that I was able to help someone with what I learned just a few weeks ago.


I am glad you did, though. I am not quite sure about the subjunctive in Greek. I have Latin ut-clauses in my head: a bit confusing . . . Anyway, thanks again.

:D
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