Swearing

[Keegan]

Some good friends of mine have been teasing me for studying Latin, a dead language, and I thought it would be funny to cuss at them in Latin next time they do so (we swear at each other enough in English, so it won't be taken personally). Does anyone know any obscenities that I could use?

[Cyborg]

This may help you warm up (warning: foul language):
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Latin/ ... idden.html

But if I were you I'd double check each of the words I'd choose in a dictionary, since the website mentions no source for the definitions.

You'll also find some curses in some of Catullus' poems.

[William]

[annis]

Tsk, tsk. Poor Romans. Had to lift so much sexual vocab from the Greeks.

The standard reference for the racier corners of Latin vocabulary is The Latin Sexual Vocabulary, J.N. Adams, 1982. Martial and Catullus become clearer.

[Cyborg]

Tsk, tsk. Poor Romans. Had to lift so much sexual vocab from the Greeks.

Wow, the Greeks must have much more foul words. Do they have worse words than irrum*** and pedic*** ?

Hmmm... and where did the greeks lift their from?

I don't want to drive the topic away, so...

[annis]

Wow, the Greeks must have much more foul words. Do they have worse words than irrum*** and pedic*** ?

Um. The second is Greek. And yes.

Hmmm... and where did the greeks lift their from?

Native genius. Also, vivid and creative compounds.

[Cyborg]

eundem.

[Cyborg]

Does anyone know any obscenities that I could use?

If the sapientiores won't help you, maybe I could. I only know some (some of the ones used by Catullus), but I'd need permission from the moderators to list them here together with their English meanings.

[bellum paxque]

Obviously, slang and profanity represent language at its most primal and raw -- it is unfortunate that they are often omitted from studies of foreign languages.

I am very interested in this subject. Cyborg, you might avoid the wrath of the moderators if you substitute for the plain anglo-saxon translation a more neutral word, perhaps adding a number from 1-5 indicating level of offense. For instance, "to copulate" could replace one common curse word, and "5" could indicate that it is highly offensive.

Just a suggestion. Of course, it would be preferable to present the uncensored list. For our scholarly instruction, of course.

David

[Cyborg]

Well, I've just noticed that the words I've seen Catullus making use of are mostly already explained in the link I posted before. Far from being an expert on the subject, this is what I know so far from catullus readings:

cinaedus (he uses this a lot - i learned it as "unchaste, pervert"), moecha, pathicus, scortum.
The ones who are not listed in the given website are: cacatus ("sh**ty") and defututus ("worn out by debauchery" - he once calls a girl that).

I'm sorry I can't help more, I'm just a beginner.

[benissimus]

I hardly take issue with the writing of ancient curses written in a non-native tongue, and I doubt anyone would be offended. Chances are that if someone recognizes the meaning of the word they have already looked it up themselves and cannot reasonably fault you for knowing it. Of course many Latin words for body parts come into English, but they are usually more clinical than dirty. We have already seen some ancient naughty words used (poorly) in this very forum, on at least one occasion to very humorous effect.

Cyborg's link had a couple words that I was not familiar with, but it gave the wrong genders and gender endings to several words and I could not find a couple of the words in any of my classical dictionaries. Some are weak insults and some highly vulgar, and some are not inherently vulgar, while several others have entirely harmless alternate meanings, but here is my list... so far:

...and they aren't ALL Greek borrowings , comments in brackets, alternate spellings in parentheses. If you want the meanings, ask me in private.

ancillariolus, -i M.
bucco, -onis M. [mildly abusive]
caco, -are, -aui, -atum [somewhat rude]; a pearl... Martial: faciem durum, Phoebe, cacantis habes
cacaturio, -ire, -iui, -itus
cacatus, -us M.
cacatus, -a, -um
catamitus, -i (catameitus) M.
ceueo, ceuere, ceui [offensive]
choeros, -i M. [prob. rude]
cicer, ciceris N. [prob. rude]
cinaedus, -i [abusive]
cinaedulus, -i
cinaedus, -a, -um
clunis, -is C. [not rude]
colei, -orum M. [informal, perh rude]
coleatus, -a, -um
coleos habere
criso, -are
culus, -i M. [rude]
cunio, -ire [not rude]
cunnus, -i M.
cunnilingus, -i M.
cunnio, -onis M.
cunnuliggeter
follis, -is M. [rude]
futuo, futuere, futui, fututus [rude]
defututus, -a, -um
fututio, -onis F.
fututor, -oris M.
fututrix, -icis adj.
gremium, -i N.
ilia, ilium (sometimes in singular but defective) N.
irrumo, -are, -aui, -atum (irrimo) [very abusive]
irrumatio, -onis
irrumator, -oris
leno, lenonis M. what would Leno think?
lenocinium, -i N.
lenonius, -a, -um
lumbus, -i M. [not rude]
lustra, -orum (lustrum) N.
lustror, -ari, -atus sum
lutum, -i N. [abusive]
lupa, -ae F.
lupanar, -aris N.
lupatria, -ae F.
lupor, lupari
lupula, -ae F.
masturbor, -ari, -atus sum
masturbator, -oris M.
meio, meere, mi(n)xi, mi(n)ctum
mentula, -ae F. [obscene, sometimes abusive]
mentulatus, -a, -um another pearl: deus Priapo mentulatior non est
merdae, -arum (merda) F. [rude]
meretrix, -icis F.
meretricie adv.
meretricius, -a, -um
meretricula, -ae F. [derogatory]
moecha, -ae F.
moechas, moechados F.
moechimonium, -i N.
moechisso, -are
moechocinaedus, -i M.
moechor, -ari, -atus sum
moechus, -i M.
muliercula, -ae F. [abusive]
muliero, -are, -aui, -atum
mutto, -onis (muto) M.
mutinus, -a, -um (moetinus)
mutunium, -i (muttonium; mutinium) N.
mutuniatus, -a, -um
nates, -ium (natis, -is) F. [not rude]
paedico, -are, -aui, -atum (pedico) [abusive]
paedicator, -oris (pedicator) M.
paedico, -onis (pedico) M.
pallaca, -ae F.
paelex, -icis (pelex; pellex) F. [post-classical]
pathicus, -a, -um [abusive]
pedem/pedes tollere
pedo, pedere, pepedi, peditum [probably not very offensive]
penis, -is M.
prurio, -ire
prurigo, -ginis F.
pudenda, -orum N. (also pars pudenda)
pullus, -i M.
scortum, -i N.
scortillum, -i N.
scortor, -ari, -atus sum
scrotum, -i N.
sopio, -onis M. [rude]
testis, -is M. Pliny: quod amas amato testibus praesentibus
testiculus, -i M.
uagina, -ae F.
uerpus, -a, -um
uerpa, -ae F.
uomer, uomeris M.

[amans]

Impressive list, bennissime!!! You're, like, shall we say... a collector? Some of the words need to be wound up in phrases to make good insults, I think . . .

But I reckon this thread is evolving into a discussion of "foul" language in general... inter urinam et faeces nascimur

Perhaps Keegan could use this one:

pleni stercoris estis

Cheers to all.

[Cyborg]

Cyborg's link had a couple words that I was not familiar with, but it gave the wrong genders and gender endings to several words and I could not find a couple of the words in any of my classical dictionaries. Some are weak insults and some highly vulgar, and some are not inherently vulgar, while several others have entirely harmless alternate meanings, but here is my list... so far:

Yes, that's why I recommended double-checking each word before calling someone a pathicus.

Wow, that's a big list, ruberent quique uultuum romanorum.

[Cyborg]

Thanks for the whole list, benissime!

pedo, pedere, pedi [probably not very offensive]

Interesting. L&S (click) and two dictionaries of mine say it is pedo, pedere, pepedi, peditum.

[jotapianus]

How juvenile - This nonsense explains your previous post

[benissimus]

nonne loqueris umquam, jotapiane, clementer? quod maius - possisne loqui latine?

[Lucus Eques]

Vero; semper alios nobiscum latine loqui quaerimus; si ut Benissimus dixit te efficis ut simul bisue clementer loqui, alium inter nos habere nos certe delectet.

[bellum paxque]

I certainly intend to store this list on my computer. No doubt, I will find it useful. . . in a variety of ways. If only the translations were conveniently included. I suspect that many of the more reputable dictionaries will translate such words delicately, to say the least.

David

PS - And what is juvenile about wanting to know a language in and out? I am interested in Latin as it was spoken domi as well as in libro.

[Cyborg]

If only the translations were conveniently included.

If you want the meanings, ask me in private.

[amans]

I certainly intend to store this list on my computer. No doubt, I will find it useful. . . in a variety of ways.

I like that!

If only the translations were conveniently included. I suspect that many of the more reputable dictionaries will translate such words delicately, to say the least.

True! How about this from Lewis & Short

paedico (pedico , Auct. Priap. 68 ), are, v. a. [παιδικός],
I. to practise unnatural vice.
I. Lit.: amores, Cat. 21, 4 : puerum, Mart. 11, 94, 6 .--Of various forms of unnatural lewdness, Mart. 11, 104, 17; id. 7, 67, 1. --
II. Transf., of the tunic, Mart. 11, 99, 2.

"various forms of lewdness" . . . The Greeks, cf. the reference, did not find this unnatural, did they?

PS - And what is juvenile about wanting to know a language in and out? I am interested in Latin as it was spoken domi as well as in libro.

I agree completely.

[benissimus]

Thanks for the whole list, benissime!

pedo, pedere, pedi [probably not very offensive]

Interesting. L&S (click) and two dictionaries of mine say it is pedo, pedere, pepedi, peditum.

You are right about pedi, I am not sure why I wrote that.

If only the translations were conveniently included.

I will gladly PM them to you alongside the words if you ask, but I won't talk dirty to you or anyone else unless they want me to.

[Cyborg]

hahahaha.

[Episcopus]

Steven, what would be the most accurate rendering of fannyflappeur ?

Multos ad tu gratias

Episcopo

[amans]

Steven, what would be the most accurate rendering of fannyflappeur ?

culipalpator

[Mercurialis]

Before deciding to seek re-election, The West Wing's President Jed Bartlet rants in the National Cathedral over the death of his assistant, Dolores Landingham:
"Gratias tibi ago, domine. Haec credam a deo pio? A deo iusto, a deo scito? Cruciatus in crucem. Tuus in terra servus, nuntius fui. Officium perfeci. Cruciatus in crucem. Eas in crucem!"

[Episcopus]

I am not denying that I am more juvenile than any one here, but I have to side with jotapianus on this one. The only thing worse than dog latin is dog latin penibus ornata. Funny though this may be, I am sure that every one here strives to improve the quality of their latin, which can be accomplished by thorough study of A&G, rather than spending this time learning how to call some one a pooface in latin. Take a look in the mirror every one. Be honest with yourselves - do you hear that? Woof woof. Be productive, complete a prose composition available from textkit instead of PMing our unworthy moderator for the meanings of his silly list, take off your collars, rip down that Minimus bonus mus est and learn something please. benissimus' bizarre efforts remind me of one friend long ago who used to write Käseglockende all over my german book, and I would always give retorts as immature as ben's list above; this was a long time ago, thankfully I have grown up. I suggest you all do the same.

[sisyphus]

paedico ... various forms of unnatural lewdness

Omigods. Not "unnatural lewdness"! That's disgusting. How could you publish such a thing? You should all have your knackers removed, forthwith.

And as for all those 'f' and 'c' words, oh, and the 'i', 'l', 'g', oh! and my goodness, those 'm' and 'p' words ... those letters should be removed from the alphabet. They offendeth me sorely.

i have to confess to incomprehension when it comes to taboo. Surely there is nothing obscene about any language, only the degenerate social attitudes that objections to it reflect.

To take an example: consider the Victorian objection to the visibility of womens legs or ankles. The extremities to which this was taken meant that piano and table legs had to be draped (it's common to find a line of tack marks on pianos, where the drapery was attached). Which is the unhealthy item in this domestic entertainment tableau? Is it a) womens ankles, or b) the minds of people who think womens ankles are obscene?

[bellum paxque]

Episcope, while I understand and respect your criticism of this post, I would suggest that there are multiple reasons why one might want to acquire a list of Latin curse words. Of course, I can not honestly claim that I have never felt the juvenile thrill of rendering English taboos in another language. Certainly, one should be aware that the wanton urge to scribble Latin curse words on paper is not far removed from the urge to scribble English curse words on bathroom walls. However, as I said, there are other motivations which, in my opinion, are far more compelling for those on this board who asked benissimus for his list. For one, it is simply practical to have accurate translations of words that appear in Catullus and other poets. "Respectable" dictionaries - at least conservative ones - might be prone to render these words in euphemisms.

But let us be honest: swear words are not used because of their literal meaning (or at least not only because of that), but rather because of the emotional punch they deliver. For me to say, "F*** you" obviously conveys little direct sense. If a Martian looked up "f***" in the dictionary and discovered that it meant "to copulate," of course he would be quite confused. Dirty words, though no doubt etymologically connected with their root meaning, have earned their power (and penalty) through time and culture. The difference between "copulate" and its counterpart is the emotion communicated.

Therefore, failing to learn the swear words of a language robs one of an important means of communication. Certainly swearing is less dignified and witty than maintaing purely rational discourse. Sermo autem ratione gestus satis utilis non semper est. (Which should say, "But conversation conducted by reason is not always useful enough.")

Surely there is nothing obscene about any language, only the degenerate social attitudes that objections to it reflect.

While I would not fully endorse sisyphus' opinion, I do agree that language per se cannot be wicked. Are sounds wicked, after all? Are meanings of words? Again, let us consider the literal import of "excrement" and a less polite alternative. There is patently NO difference, aside from the one that counts, which is the emotional one (and perhaps other considerations which obtain, such as level of formality).

Obviously, language when used imprudently can annoy or even seriously injure people; thus swear words are like knives - sharp, effective, and requiring caution, as they can quickly yield gushing arteries. But their inherent danger does not mean that they cannot be used effectively, or at least appreciated for their emotional impact. To rob a language of its curse words is effectively to geld it, making it soft, effeminate, and impotent, no matter how even-tempered and elegant it may be.

Amabo vos, mihi parcite propter magnum studium, quod me fecit scribere nimium audaciter haec. Si ea falsa esse putabitis, nihil irae habebo; si ea vera esse putabitis, nihil gloriae capiam.

Ob patientiam multas gratias vobis!

David (cui dormiendum est!)

[Lucus Eques]

Immo gloriam cape! Macte, David! logicissime ac clarissime scripsisti; ita censeo ipse quoque.