did a pretty bad job and left them in misery
I'm not much into politics and such, but seeing that England kept what it remained of his colonies way up to the XX century, and really did a pretty bad job and left them in misery (well, that's what I've seen in most cases, unlike Australia), then I think it was the best. I just cannot imagine 13 small and poor countries in the east coast of NA. Of course, all of it depends on the colonial and economic condition of every country.
Yhevhe wrote:I'm not much into politics and such, but seeing that England kept what it remained of his colonies way up to the XX century, and really did a pretty bad job and left them in misery (well, that's what I've seen in most cases, unlike Australia), then I think it was the best. I just cannot imagine 13 small and poor countries in the east coast of NA. Of course, all of it depends on the colonial and economic condition of every country.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:""Equal" is an odd word to use [...]" (Phylax)
Look it up in the dictionary.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Without the Revolution, American independence would just be a change of masters, or more precisely, a change of masters' masters.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"Equality would not have been self-evident to them [slaves]." (Phylax)
Are we talking independence, or pharisaism?
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Turp, what does 'chav' mean (and why is it a problem)?
Phylax wrote:This seems to be a good place to start.
The Declaration of Independence has been hailed as one of the great documents of the Enlightenment, and is regarded as seminal to the birth of the US.
I find it difficult to understand the esteem in which it is held.
Phylax wrote:Some things in life are self evident, but the majority are not. If I land a hammer on my thumb, that fact is self-evident to me, and probably to you if you happen to be watching. Whether human beings have inalienable rights such as are listed may be true, may not be true. But they are not self-evident.
Indeed, whenever someone claims that something is obvious or self-evident, I have to fight down the urge to reach for my spray-can of bull-sh*t repellent. You see, things that are truly self-evident really do not have to be described as such.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Beware of the Dark Force, Eureka.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Cynical: Scornful of the motives or virtue of others.
Not cynical, Eureka. Cynical would be something like "American independence was just a change of masters". Note that what is known outside the U.S. as The U.S. War of Independence is called in the U.S. The American Revolution.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Shoot.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"[...] half truth." (Eureka)
I disagree. Statement: Hannibal's army crossed the Alps. (True.) The fact that he lost half of his army in the effort doesn't make my statement a half truth.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"After all, it happened in other British colonies and required neither revolution nor independence." (Eureka)
True, it just required the fear of revolution and independence. Revolution is bad for business, and the cost of social reform can be written off as anti-revolutionary tax.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"[...] the fear of revolution [...]." (Myself)
Now that was cynical. I was talking about Spaniards and Mexicans, of course. I'm sure that Canadians are just good hearted. Can you imagine a blood thirsty mob of Canadians?
Bardo de Saldo wrote: Australians are a different case. They are the Andalusians of the British World, funny by nature, the salt of the Earth. They could never take The Revolution seriously.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"That doesn't apply. We were quantifying the affects of independence, not qualifying the movements of ancient elephant aficionados." (Eureka)
To quantify or to qualify, that's not the question. The question is that nit-picking, what simple statement of fact doesn't become a half truth?
"Nice day." (Not for the farmers awaiting rain.)
"I just farted." (Ruining the lives of millions of air-borne bacteria.)
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"Independence will always be a change of masters, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have on-flowing effects to all sections of society." (Eureka)
Tell that to Emperor Bokassa's dessert.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"Bah!" (Eureka)
We're impressed by your rhetorical prowess.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"The trade union leaders, journalists and demonstration organisers would agree with me." (Eureka)
Under what conditions?
I never mentioned them. I was referring to the democratisation of said countries. Let's not forget that America only became what we would now recognise as a complete democracy in the 1950's and 60's due to the civil-rights movement.Bardo de Saldo wrote:Why do you keep bringing up the social reforms of the second half of the 20th century?
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Get real: the battle of Yorktown wasn't fought over Social Security,
Bardo de Saldo wrote: and 1776 was not 1946.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:In 1776 Ghandi would have been impaled, quartered and roasted in front of a cheering crowd.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"Surely the only possible reason [for the American Revolution] is trade." (Eureka.)
Cynical, and 1/16 truth. You guys are just sore.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:My knowledge of Spain's provinces is a bit thin, so I don't know if you're trying to be insulting or not." (Eureka)
Comparing Australians to any Spaniard is a selfless act of generosity on my part. Now, if you think that being funny and savory is an insult, my apologies.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:The signers of the Declaration were rich, and would have remained so under British rule. If they had lost (not an unlikely outcome) they would have been ruined, to say the least.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"Well, they [Spaniards] have had a fair few revolutions, so they must be pretty good." (Eureka)
Thanks. More like desperate with nothing to lose. If we had had a couple of Jeffersons and Washingtons instead of the retarded kings, amoral rich, butcher generals, petty liberals and retrograde priests that the Divine Providence sent our way (not that we didn't deserve them) we'd be philosophizing in Spanish right now.
Bardo de Saldo wrote: Maybe we should let the Brits and the Yanks fight it out themselves and go grab a beer.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Excuse my patriotic outburst, Eureka. Australians are also the best. We're all the best! Except for the French, of course.
(A wink to the French.)
Eureka wrote:But anyway, that's just the thing. Since when are democratic revolutions ever initiated by the landed gentry?
Bert wrote:GlottalGreekGeek wrote: I prefer a few petty taxes over a bloody war, especially one in my backyard.
Who was it that said something like; Better to give 1000 to charity than a penny as tribute.
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