Pronunciation

[Puella Parva]

I was wondering how exactly are you supposed to pronounce Latin? I can copy the accents of lots of different nationalities, and I was wondering which accent Latin is more like, if any?

[Keesa]

D'Ooge has some excellent information on the proper pronunciation of each letter in the Latin alphabet; as far as similar languages, probably the Romance languages are the closest, since they share Latin as a root. (Romance languages=French, Spanish, Italian) <br /><br />Keesa

[Skylax]

I would say Italian.

[Puella Parva]

Okay, Thanks!!!!

[Episcopus]

I would also second Italian as closest, with a slight hint of Swedish/Russian hybrid to quell the slightly high pitched Italian accent - then make your voice similar to that of an old evil guy and you have true Latin. <br /><br />http://dekart.f.bg.ac.yu/~vnedeljk/VV/<br /><br />is episcopus eum locum reperit ;D causa superbiae episcopi est <br />

[Puella Parva]

Hey, thanks for the link!!

[benissimus]

[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=424;start=0#3366 date=1060543206]<br />then make your voice similar to that of an old evil guy and you have true Latin. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />No!!!!! It can be so beautiful...

[mariek]

<br />This was mentioned on this site a short while ago, it offers pronunciation sound files.<br /><br />Read Latin Right<br />http://www.classicsnet.plus.com/readitright/read_intro.htm<br /><br />I also have this in my notes. It's a pronunciation guide from Benissimus. I think you'll find it helpful. <br /><br /><br />Long vowels are often marked by a macron, or overline in learning texts but not in genuine Latin. These are to help with pronunciation so that you can differentiate between long and short vowels. Short vowels are really just the same as long vowels except that you pronounce them in a "clipped" manner. If you know any of the Romance languages, they are all pretty similar to Latin. For all intents and purposes, these should suffice:<br /><br />Long (with macron line) Short (without macron)<br />A- AH as in "fAther" a- UH as in "galA"<br />E- AY as in "rEin" or "gAte" e- EH as in "pEt"<br />I- EE as in "fEEt" or "Ink" i- IH as in "pIck"<br />O- OH as in "pOke" o- O as in "Or"<br />U- OOH as in "gOOse" or "flUte" u- U as in "pUt"<br /><br />The Greek letter "upsilon" is found in many words adopted by Latin and is pronounced similarly to a French "u" which is quite undescribable unfortunately if you do not already know. If you cannot find someone to demonstrate it for you, I have heard it explained as a mix of (Latin) "I" and "U" or as a "half-assed" "O" . It has both long and short forms just like all the other vowels.<br /><br />There are also a variety of diphthong, letters that sort of are pronounced quickly when they are together and become one syllable.<br /><br />AE or Æ is pronounced like "I" as in "rIde".<br />OE or &#338; is pronounced like "OY" as in "bOY" or "bOIl".<br />EI is pronounced like "AY" as in "rEIn".<br />AU is pronounced like "OW" as in "pOUnd".<br />EU is a rare diphthong; just combine a Latin "E" and "U" and you will have it. Don't use it unless you know it is pronounced as such.<br />UI is a rare diphthong; same as above.<br /><br />There are some older diphthong such as AI, but you probably won't encounter those unless you are studying very old Latin.<br /><br />

[Keesa]

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=424;start=0#3450 date=1060576298]<br />The Greek letter "upsilon" is found in many words adopted by Latin and is pronounced similarly to a French "u" which is quite undescribable unfortunately if you do not already know. If you cannot find someone to demonstrate it for you, I have heard it explained as a mix of (Latin) "I" and "U" or as a "half-assed" "O" . It has both long and short forms just like all the other vowels.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Unfortunately, I do know about the French "u"-it's a killer! Mamma (whose native language is French) has spent whole half hours standing there, just making the sound, while I try to imitate her...so far, I haven't gotten it. <br /><br />Keesa

[ingrid70]

[quote author=Keesa link=board=3;threadid=424;start=0#3492 date=1060601397]<br /><br />Unfortunately, I do know about the French "u"-it's a killer! <br /><br />Keesa<br />[/quote]<br /><br />As far as I know, most French people survive it . <br /><br />Ingrid

[Keesa]

The French are vaccinated at birth against the effects of the "u" virus.

[Milito]

[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=424;start=0#3409 date=1060563757]<br />[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=424;start=0#3366 date=1060543206]<br />then make your voice similar to that of an old evil guy and you have true Latin. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />No!!!!! It can be so beautiful...<br />[/quote]<br /><br />This may be Episcopus' idea of beauty?

[Keesa]

What if there was, somewhere amongst the population of the Roman Emperor, a single human being who wasn't an old evil guy? Would they still sound like one? <br /><br />Keesa

[vinobrien]

Not if they'd read W.Sidney Allen's "Vox Latina"

[Episcopus]

[quote author=Keesa link=board=3;threadid=424;start=0#3492 date=1060601397]<br /><br />Unfortunately, I do know about the French "u"-it's a killer! Mamma (whose native language is French) has spent whole half hours standing there, just making the sound, while I try to imitate her...so far, I haven't gotten it. <br /><br />Keesa<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Ta Mère <br /><br />French "u", as in "plus"? <br /><br />That's like German, "funf" with umlaut. <br /><br />I can't explain it but I can do it yay

[vinobrien]

Let your lips say "oo" as in "boo"<br />then let the rest of your mouth say "ee" as in Greek <br />and suddenly you sound continental...

[Keesa]

It works! It works! I did it, I actually did it! I checked it with Mom, and she says yes, I am pronouncing the French "u" right for the first time in my life! I'm CURED! Thank you, vinobrien! <br /><br />A Very Pleased and Excited, <br /><br />Keesa

[Lumen_et_umbra]

Italian pronunciation is not really similar to that of Latin at all.<br /><br />For instance, in Italian, the letter c, followed by an i or an e, makes a ch sound. <br /><br />E.G. Piacere Pee-AH-chay-ray<br />(Latin always pronounces the c as a k)<br />cito - Kit-aw<br /><br />And, in Italian, the three letters "gli" are pronounced as the -lli- in million when two vowels surround the three letters.<br /><br />Also, most of the time, Italian vowels are pronounced long, whereas, vowels in Latin - without a macron - are pronounced short. Besides these, there are many other pronunciation rules in Italian that conflict with those of Latin. <br /><br />Although, it should be noted that, a short time ago, a tacit consensus was reached in regards to Latin pronunciation, wherein Latin-speakers simply decided to pronounce Latin according to the pronunciation rules of the language predominantly spoken in their region. Nevertheless, I prefer to use classical Latin pronunciation (Likewise, I don't use the letter "u" in writing Latin because classical Latin used the "v" to produce both a w-sound and a u-sound.)

[Keesa]

Is the Latin "c" ever soft? When I read "adolescens" or "glacies" (both from "Excelsior", Latin for Beginners, BLD), my mouth wants to make those "c"s soft, not hard-"adolessens", not "adoleskens" and "glasies" rather than "glakies". Is that ever right, or must it always be hard? <br /><br />Keesa

[Lumen_et_umbra]

Wheelock's Latin 6th Edition predicates the pronunciation rule (id est, c is always hard) on ancient transcriptions from Latin to Greek. So, yes, as far as I know, the Latin c is always pronounced hard, unfortunately.

[Keesa]

Thank you! I wish it could be soft( ) but I'm glad to know how it's supposed to be pronounced, so that I can do it right from the very beginning. <br /><br />Keesa

[benissimus]

[quote author=Lumen_et_umbra link=board=3;threadid=424;start=15#3585 date=1060640188]<br />Italian pronunciation is not really similar to that of Latin at all.<br /><br />For instance, in Italian, the letter c, followed by an i or an e, makes a ch sound. <br /><br />E.G. Piacere Pee-AH-chay-ray<br />(Latin always pronounces the c as a k)<br />cito - Kit-aw<br /><br />And, in Italian, the three letters "gli" are pronounced as the -lli- in million when two vowels surround the three letters.<br /><br />Also, most of the time, Italian vowels are pronounced long, whereas, vowels in Latin - without a macron - are pronounced short. Besides these, there are many other pronunciation rules in Italian that conflict with those of Latin. <br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Very true, but the vowels are still almost exactly the same and most of the consonants haven't changed too drastically. I actually think that Spanish has preserved Latin better than Italian, but that is open to debate. The main thing is that Italian or Spanish sound more like Latin than any other language does.

[Lumen_et_umbra]

Well, if we are attempting to determine which language's pronunciation is least disparate to that of Latin, then I would be inclined to submit to you that Romanian or some Russian language's pronunciation is thus (in my opinion).<br /><br />Spanish and Italian, while still very close, are both equally dissimilar in their pronunciations compared to the other's and compared to Latin's. <br /><br />Gemelo - Hey-MAY-low Spanish (H sound)<br />Giacomo - Jeeh-ah-CO-mo Italian (Soft G sound)<br />Genus - Gen-us Latin (Hard G)

[benissimus]

Ha! I think it sounds somewhat like Russian as well...

[vinobrien]

The real problems for most people are the v c and g. Greek transcriptions tell us that these should be pronounced as w k and gh but the natural desire to pronounce a consonantal u as v and to soften c and g before i and e obviously affected Latin speakers as that is the way the consonants ended up being pronounced.<br /><br />The palatalisation of consonants in Italian, gl and gn, is reproduced in other romance languages e.g. nh in Portuguese or n(tilde) in Spanish. <br /><br />The mythical history of the ceceo espanol is well documented but is probably a further development of the softening c like the ch sound in Italian. Remember Cicero died a good two millenia ago.

[Episcopus]

[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=424;start=15#3642 date=1060664726]<br />Ha! I think it sounds somewhat like Russian as well...<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Oh finally when some one else says it you agree but hear not Episcopum!<br /><br />Italian accent is more like Latin than that of Spanish by far.

[Lumen_et_umbra]

¿Qué es "Ceceo Español" este del que has hablado?<br /><br />What is this "ceco español" of which you have spoken?<br /><br />Jamás he oído hablar de esa cosa.

[Keesa]

[quote author=Lumen_et_umbra link=board=3;threadid=424;start=15#3639 date=1060663605]<br />Well, if we are attempting to determine which language's pronunciation is least disparate to that of Latin, then I would be inclined to submit to you that Romanian or some Russian language's pronunciation is thus (in my opinion).<br />[/quote]<br /><br />My older brother speaks Russian-how convenient! I'll just get him to teach me how to pronounce it...if he can take time from his inestimably busy college schedule for his little sister! <br /><br />Keesa