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Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.

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Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.

Postby mingshey » Fri May 27, 2005 3:47 am

I'm trying to put Humpty Dumpty in A.Greek.
Image
[face=SPIonic]Kufo/paxuj tei/xw| e(/zet'.
Kufo/paxuj kate/pese.
pa\nq' i(/ppoi a)/ndre/s te basile/oj
ou)\ du/nant' au)= to\n suntiqh/menai.[/face]


I beg your corrections and advices. Vocabs, syntax, meters, everything.
Thanks in advance!
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Postby whiteoctave » Fri May 27, 2005 3:40 pm

an interesting idea, Mingshey. in line 1 is [face=SPIonic]e3zet'[/face] meant to be present tense? if so, elision of -[face=SPIonic]ai[/face] is rather harsh, and impossible if no word opening with a vowel follows. once you have decided what metre you want to put the poem in, you can see if synaphaea applies or not, that is whether elision between lines is allowed or not. [face=SPIonic]kate/pese[/face] is perhaps an awkward shift in tense from line 1 (unless [face=SPIonic]h3zet'[/face] was there intended). the accent of 'men' should just be on the former syllable. is there any specific reason for the Ionic form [face=SPIonic]basile/oj[/face]? it is certainly more interesting i suppose. [face=SPIonic]du/nant'[/face] is a shift back to the present: i think the original can be rendered all by aorists. [face=SPIonic]au0to\n[/face] is accented thus. finally, i suppose [face=SPIonic]suntiqh/menai [/face] stands for [face=SPIonic]suntiqe/nai[/face]?

i know a good version of the poem done by Henry Drury (published in 1841) in Latin elegiacs, so clearly Greek elegiacs would work as a metre.
incidentally, although the more common modern version has 'couldn't put him back together again', the Gammer Gurton version closes with 'not all the king's horses nor all the queen's men, could put Humpty Dumty on the wall again'.

if you work at it, i am sure with this good start you can compose a good quatrain.

~D
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Postby Geoff » Fri May 27, 2005 4:46 pm

Great Idea Mingshey. I'm glad there are capable people doing such things. I can benefit from these efforts someday.
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Postby amans » Sat May 28, 2005 12:50 am

saluete omnes, [face=spionic]xai/rete pa/ntej[/face]

Great idea indeed Mingshey.

But some questions:

1) How did you go about translating "Humpty Dumpty" into Greek?

2) What about meter? Is it advisable to use the same meter as in English or should one use a Greek meter instead?

At ...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=2& ... pdf&e=9707

... I found this version in Latin:

Humptius Dumptius in muro sedebat,
Humptius Dumptius magnum casum
habeat;
Et omnes equites hominesque regis
Non Humptins Dumptius restruere
poterunt.

But it is probably not very good.

I'd like to find some exercises for composing in Greek or Latin. But perhaps poetry is difficult for a relative newbie like me...
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Postby whiteoctave » Sat May 28, 2005 11:51 am

re:

Humptius Dumptius in muro sedebat,
Humptius Dumptius magnum casum
habeat;
Et omnes equites hominesque regis
Non Humptins Dumptius restruere
poterunt.

that is just awful.
advisable Lat. metre would be hendecasyllables and in Grk. elegiacs.

~D
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Postby amans » Sat May 28, 2005 12:37 pm

whiteoctave, I agree with you. I just found another shot at it on the web which is no better:

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/evilharpy/latin.html

how would you translate these lines into Grk by the way?

Beauty is truth, truth beauty,--that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know

Thanks for any help.
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Postby mingshey » Tue May 31, 2005 2:31 am

Hi, everybody!
Thanks for replies. It is only a rusty attempt since I know almost nothing of real Greek verse forms.
I had this sheet music in my hand when I tried my translation. So the verse I used for translation was thus:
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

I tried to keep the count of syllables rather than the meter that I scarcely know, and the tense in imperfect, if not aorist.
In the line 1 I meant [face=SPIonic]e(/zeto[/face] (3rd. sg. imp. m/p) and in line 4 [face=SPIonic]du/nanto[/face](3rd. pl. imp.). and [face=SPIonic]au)= to\n [/face] is meant to be two words, [face=SPIonic]au)=[/face](again) [face=SPIonic]to\n[/face](him). No specific reason for Ionic form is meant here, if I exclude my ignorance of dialect forms. I selected the word forms as I could summon up on Perseus word search site. Now I see I had to put it [face=SPIonic]-e/wj[/face] or [face=SPIonic]-h=oj[/face]. :oops:
So there you see some Homeric forms of imperfect, that omits the augment.

And good point, Amans.
I came across a French phonological version of this verse
Homme petit d'homme petit, s'attend, n'avale
Homme petit d'homme petit, à degrés de bègues folles
Anal deux qui noeuds ours, anal deux qui noeuds s'y mènent
Coup d'un poux tome petit tout guetteur à gaine
and thought of doing it in Greek. But I couldn't manage to do it phonological. So just tried to make a translation that I could sing it in the same rhythm. And it is just that don't know a thing about Ancient Greek verse forms, except vaguely the ducked-a-lick hecks-a-meter I'm confronting in Pharr. So any advice on the meters and forms are welcome.

One thing I'm content about is, since the last line describes how Humpty went FUBAR, and I got the line in quite a tongue-twister, so it got close to an onomatopoetic line. :lol: Well, if you don't agree with this here, ...

I got Greek words for hump and dump respectively to make up [face=SPIonic]Kufo/paxuj[/face], but someone could get a much better phonetically close translation.
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Postby hyptia » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:52 pm

mingshey wrote: and thought of doing it in Greek. But I couldn't manage to do it phonological.

Just for grins, I gave it a shot.

[face=SPIonic]a(/ma th=| d' a(/ma th=| se to\n e(/w
a(/ma th=| d' a(/ma th=| o(/d' e)bh= ge fw/r
a)na\ q' o(\ kinh=|j w(=j e)j, a)na\ q' o(\ kinh=|j me/n
klu/w d' e)n pou q' a(/ma th=| quga/tera gh/n.[/face]


Both of the [face=SPIonic]q'[/face] in line 3 are [face=SPIonic]to/[/face] whereas in line 4 it is [face=SPIonic]te[/face].

English translation is thus (although the original is admittedly a little sloppy):
With her and with her, you whom are of morning
With her and with her, this thief indeed walked
Up that which you are in motion as though into, up that which on one hand you are in motion
Whereas I learn (orally) from a daughter land in somewhere also with her.


I never could seem to understand Greek meter, so if it's way off that's why... but it's the best phonetic approximation I could think of. There just aren't words that end in lambda! :lol: Any corrections and improvements would be most welcome. :)
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