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Luke 22:44 bloody sweat

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Luke 22:44 bloody sweat

Postby aemilius » Mon May 09, 2005 2:09 pm

Hi

This text is from Luke 22:44:

[face=spionic] kai genomenoj en agwnia ektenesteron proshuxeto: kai egeneto o idrwj autou wsei qromboi aimatos katabainontes epi thn ghn [/face]

Depending on the grammar can we conclude whether the sweat really was bloody or that this is only an illustration? It seems to me that the problem is how to interpret the word [face=spionic] wsei [/face] "as it were"
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Postby Kasper » Mon May 09, 2005 10:43 pm

Quite clearly He did not sweat blood, but his sweat was like blood. I have no idea what that means....

I always wonder why people put so much emphasis on this bit of the story anway. I mean, it clearly says that Jezus was alone at the time; the story was written a couple decades after the event; there is no way that we can actually know what happened, what he said or what his sweat was like.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Postby Bert » Tue May 10, 2005 2:17 am

Kasper wrote: Quite clearly He did not sweat blood, but his sweat was like blood. I have no idea what that means....

I always wonder why people put so much emphasis on this bit of the story anway.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that people so much emphasis on this bit of the story.
I have not noticed an excessive amount of attention being paid to this.
Kasper wrote:
I mean, it clearly says that Jezus was alone at the time; the story was written a couple decades after the event; there is no way that we can actually know what happened, what he said or what his sweat was like.

My take on this is simple (maybe you'll call it simplistic.)
We know what happened because we can read about it.
We know what he said because we can read what he said.
In order to know what his sweat was like we have to interpret what we read, so there is room for differing interpretations here.
I understand it to mean that he did not have just sweat beads on his forehead but big drops of sweat falling to the ground; drip drip drip drip.
That certainly shows the agony he was in. I think that that is the reason why we have been given this information about how severly he was sweating.
Does that make sense?
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Postby Kasper » Tue May 10, 2005 2:30 am

Hi Bert,

as for the attention on this part of the story, around Easter a couple of tv channels aired shows dedicated to the last hours of Jezus, and this was a most prominent part of the shows. Perhaps it only aired in Australia! Subsequently various churches debated the issue.

Although I do not intend to make this into a debate: what you have read is what Lukas wrote down. How does he know this happened, when clearly he wasn't there? Maybe someone else told him and he wrote it down, but the bible repeatedly states that Jezus left the 3 disciples waiting and moved on a bit further by himself. Therefore we cannot know what exactly happened.

As for you interpretation, I really like it! It makes good sense.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
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Location: Melbourne

Postby chad » Wed May 11, 2005 1:08 am

hi, the link between sweat and blood reminded me of the opening of sophocles' ajax, lines 9 and 10:

e)/ndon ga\r a(nh\r a)/rti tugxa/nei, ka/ra
sta/zwn i(drw=ti kai\ xe/raj cifokto/nouj.

the allusion here is probably completely unrelated to the bible quote, but just generally out of curiosity, are there parts of the bible which are based on/linked to classical age literature? i mean specific sentences, not general historical type allusions, thanks :)
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Postby Kasper » Wed May 11, 2005 1:34 am

chad wrote:hi, the link between sweat and blood reminded me of the opening of sophocles' ajax, lines 9 and 10:

e)/ndon ga\r a(nh\r a)/rti tugxa/nei, ka/ra
sta/zwn i(drw=ti kai\ xe/raj cifokto/nouj.

the allusion here is probably completely unrelated to the bible quote, but just generally out of curiosity, are there parts of the bible which are based on/linked to classical age literature? i mean specific sentences, not general historical type allusions, thanks :)


Neither me knowledge of the bible nor of ancient greek literature is large enough to answer that one! Very interesting question though.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
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Location: Melbourne

Postby Bert » Thu May 12, 2005 12:33 am

In his letter to Titus chapter 1:12, Paul quotes a Cretan: "[face=SPIonic]Krh=tej a)ei\ yeu=stai, kaka\ quri/a, gaste/rej a)rgai/[/face]".
One of my commentaries says that this Cretan is Epimenides and the book quoted is [face=SPIonic]Peri\ Politei/aj[/face].
I'd be interested in any other instances.
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Postby calvinist » Tue May 17, 2005 5:13 am

Although this doesn't really deal with the grammar, humans can sweat blood, although it is extremely rare and only occurs in situations of very intense stress. This condition is called hematidrosis. If you take the Bible as the word of God and understand that Jesus is about to withstand the wrath of God for the sins of the entire world past, present, and future it is very understandable. Check out these links.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematidrosis http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cn ... h_05zPzhtm
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