Going back to Kopio's original question:
"Once a sinner, always a sinner." (Bardo de Saldo.)
Rhuiden wrote:
"Once a sinner, always a sinner." (Bardo de Saldo.)
Kasper wrote:That would entirely depend on what you consider a sinner. I think you forget the most central teaching of Jezusl: God is God of the living. He does not want us spent our live repenting and studying the bible for every possible rule.
Kasper wrote:In the Lords prayer a most central point is to deliver us from anger.
Kasper wrote: The whole gospel is about having peace with yourself, inside you, and carrying this over onto others. Not to spend your life weeping you are a sinner and praying for forgiveness and mumbling what a terrible person you must be just because you are human.
Kasper wrote:Sin is to transgress your conscience, not to break a law, whether it is in the bible or otherwise.
Kasper wrote:Rhuiden, first of all my apologies for the tone of my previous post. It was rather antagonistic and that is not the way to have a discussion :oops: . My apologies.
Kasper wrote:The knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, was not given to us by God. In fact, it was forbidden to us by God. The first ‘sin’ was to acquire the knowledge of right and wrong, and thereby the knowledge of sin.
Kasper wrote:To be saved, what Jezus himself prayed for, means to have peace of mind: a clear conscience.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"Once a sinner always a sinner." (Bardo de Saldo.)
Does that mean that you agree with my statement? If you do, that idea will become dogma between you and I (so be careful).
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Men define sin and its consequences. Men are not God. Therefore, God doesn't define sin and its consequences.
God doesn't define (He's Infinite! :wink: ). Some men can't get enough of defining (to others :wink: ) sin and its consequences. Therefore, men define sin and its consequences.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"
(A part-Christian, Rhuiden, is someone who bets on his 92% chance of dying with enough time to make a last-hour confession and act of faith.)
Bert wrote:Bardo de Saldo wrote:"
(A part-Christian, Rhuiden, is someone who bets on his 92% chance of dying with enough time to make a last-hour confession and act of faith.)
That would then be an act of desperation, not an act of faith. (Either that or a 'just-to-be-on-the-safe-side,-you-never-know' act.)
Bardo de Saldo wrote: That was a joke, fellers, there's no part-Christians.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:
"[God] is many things but he also "defines" everything because He created everything." (Rhuiden)
According to your logic, Rhuiden, The Lord Our Savior also "moos", "quacks" and "farts".
Emma_85 wrote:My this is turning into a Christian debate :roll:
I say men define what sin is, as there is no reason for me to believe that anyone else does. But we don't just define it at random (well, sometimes). In general what we define as 'sin' (sin just being some immoral action) are actions that prevent society from functioning properly. When you have a society then some people 'who love to make up sins' might add a few more rediculous ones, but most immoral actions are ones that simply prevent things running smoothly and fairly. I don't require a God to tell me what is bad behaviour.
Rhuiden wrote:Thanks for participating. I understand what you are saying but for you to know what is bad behaviour or sin, someone had to teach you. That was probably your parents but who taught them. Most likely it was their parents. But who taught them? It is "theoretically" possible to trace back to the first person who ever decided that something was a sin. Who was this? There are only two possibilities that I can think of: God (the creater of everything) or a man who wanted to give order to or control society.
Hi Emma,
Thanks for participating. I understand what you are saying but for you to know what is bad behaviour or sin, someone had to teach you. That was probably your parents but who taught them. Most likely it was their parents. But who taught them? It is "theoretically" possible to trace back to the first person who ever decided that something was a sin. Who was this? There are only two possibilities that I can think of: God (the creater of everything) or a man who wanted to give order to or control society.
Once we know the origin of the teaching, then we can evaluate the validity of it.
Rhuiden
Eureka wrote:Rhuiden wrote:Thanks for participating. I understand what you are saying but for you to know what is bad behaviour or sin, someone had to teach you. That was probably your parents but who taught them. Most likely it was their parents. But who taught them? It is "theoretically" possible to trace back to the first person who ever decided that something was a sin. Who was this? There are only two possibilities that I can think of: God (the creater of everything) or a man who wanted to give order to or control society.
You don't think it's possible for many people to figure out what right and wrong are without being told?
Rhuiden wrote:Emma,
I would suggest that the morals taught by God and written in His Word have not changed since the beginning of time. What has changed is mans interpretation, implementation, or accectance/rejection of God's teachings. These changes may occur over a long period of time or one generation (think the 1960's).
Before Christianity, God's teachings were still the same. They were passed down from Adam & Eve. The successive generations then chose they way they would follow the teachings, if at all. The same as today. And, as today, I am sure there were those who chose to distort or change the teaching to fit their purpose.
Rhuiden
Bardo de Saldo wrote:"I don't follow your logic Bard." (Bert)
If God does something (God + Verbe) because He created it, and God created everything, then God does everything. Therefore, it's pointless to put God and a verb in the same argumental sentence.
The examples were supposed to be "funny", because God "funs".
Bardo de Saldo wrote:That was generous, wasn't it Rhuiden? Still, Men define sin. Your theory works with easy questions such as: Is it sinful to kill? You look it up in the Bible, come up with the 10 Commandments, and conclude: God defines murder as sinful. Great. Ave María Purísima. It gets trickier with questions such as: Is it sinful to like Elton John? You look in your Bible Index, and can't find an entry for 'Elton John' or 'Art of Gays'. In order to find an answer in the Bible, you have to look for quotes in it that you can interpret to mean what your heart (in the best of cases) wants to hear.
Bardo de Saldo wrote:I haven't read the whole Bible (it gets boring pretty soon)
Bardo de Saldo wrote:Your argument proves my point: You take the Spirit of the Gospels, say, which is God's Defined Word, (blessed be the Holy Spirit), and use it as Inspiration to REDEFINE the Finer Points. As you said before, God's Definition is True, but Man's Redefinition can be faulty. One should be humble with redefinitions, because even the Holiest of Men have been blinded by God.
To say the definitions of what is a sin and what is not is totally human based is as short-sighted as to say the electric current comes from the wall socket not seeing the power plant standing behind !
mingshey wrote:According to Bible, men, since Adam(or rather, since Eve), became equal to God in the ability to know what is good and what is bad, thanks to the fruit from the tree of knowledge of Good and Bad. It is a very strange thing that the only group of people who don't believe this story are Christians.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests