Today's Composition Assignment: Blame
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Today's Composition Assignment: Blame
The theme: people who steal books from libraries.
Iambics are the customary meter for abuse, but this isn't required. I'll post mine in a few days.
Iambics are the customary meter for abuse, but this isn't required. I'll post mine in a few days.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re: Today's Composition Assignment: Blame
I cannot make up any kind of poetic meters out of my limited hoard of words.
Just this far:
ω} βιβλούς τε μεμβράνας τε καὶ πυκτίδας κλέπτων ἐκ βιβλιοθήκων ἐς ἥνδε οὐδένος ὤψ δύνατος ὁράειν ἐκ τῆς μεμβράνης ὣς θὼρ ἀρκτίων αἶγα ἢ βοῦν τεύξεις κατακαύσει τε τῶν μηρία )απόλλωνι ἑκηβόλῳ; ἢ ἐκ βιβλῶν κοιλῶν νῆας κοίλας καὶ θοὰς τεύξεις πλεύσεις τε ἐξ ἐπινείου λευκοφαίου ἐπὶ λιβικήν;
at line 6, for λιβικός, I'm not sure if I'd better put it in feminine implying πατρίς, πολίς, or γῆ, or neut. implying ἐπίνειον.
Just this far:
ω} βιβλούς τε μεμβράνας τε καὶ πυκτίδας κλέπτων ἐκ βιβλιοθήκων ἐς ἥνδε οὐδένος ὤψ δύνατος ὁράειν ἐκ τῆς μεμβράνης ὣς θὼρ ἀρκτίων αἶγα ἢ βοῦν τεύξεις κατακαύσει τε τῶν μηρία )απόλλωνι ἑκηβόλῳ; ἢ ἐκ βιβλῶν κοιλῶν νῆας κοίλας καὶ θοὰς τεύξεις πλεύσεις τε ἐξ ἐπινείου λευκοφαίου ἐπὶ λιβικήν;
at line 6, for λιβικός, I'm not sure if I'd better put it in feminine implying πατρίς, πολίς, or γῆ, or neut. implying ἐπίνειον.
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Re: Today's Composition Assignment: Blame
Gosh.
I am a bit confused by line 2 (specifically ὤψ), which leaves me a bit unsure about the surrounding lines, but I like it. I am surprised to see θώρ here.
I am not sure either.mingshey wrote:at line 6, for λιβικός, I'm not sure if I'd better put it in feminine implying πατρίς, πολίς, or γῆ, or neut. implying ἐπίνειον.
I am a bit confused by line 2 (specifically ὤψ), which leaves me a bit unsure about the surrounding lines, but I like it. I am surprised to see θώρ here.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Well, I tried to say, in lines 1 and 2, something like,
"O (you who's) stealing(or, conceals) papyri and parchments and codices from libraries to where nobody's eye can see..."
Yes, it doesn't indeed make quite a good sense with the following lines. And I see that, with ὤψ, δυνατός must be feminine, δυνατή. And the accent was also wrong.
ω} βιβλούς τε μεμβράνας τε καὶ πυκτίδας κλέπτων ἐκ βιβλιοθήκων ἐς ἥνδε οὐδένος ὤψ δυνατή ὁράειν
Corrections are always welcome.
"O (you who's) stealing(or, conceals) papyri and parchments and codices from libraries to where nobody's eye can see..."
Yes, it doesn't indeed make quite a good sense with the following lines. And I see that, with ὤψ, δυνατός must be feminine, δυνατή. And the accent was also wrong.
ω} βιβλούς τε μεμβράνας τε καὶ πυκτίδας κλέπτων ἐκ βιβλιοθήκων ἐς ἥνδε οὐδένος ὤψ δυνατή ὁράειν
Corrections are always welcome.
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nothing worse than bibliokleptomaniacs! i would have thought choliambs, aka scazons, would have been more suited to invective. i like your choice of diction, mingshey.
φέρ’ εἰπέ μοι σύ, κλέπτα φαῦλε τῶν δέλτων βίβλων τε, τῷ Πορσῶνι τῷ τε Βεντλείῳ οὺκ ἐντροπὴν ἔχεις γε; λεῖπε, παντοῦργε, σοφωτάτων ταῦτ’ ἔργα τοῖς σοφοῖς ἧσσον.
~D
φέρ’ εἰπέ μοι σύ, κλέπτα φαῦλε τῶν δέλτων βίβλων τε, τῷ Πορσῶνι τῷ τε Βεντλείῳ οὺκ ἐντροπὴν ἔχεις γε; λεῖπε, παντοῦργε, σοφωτάτων ταῦτ’ ἔργα τοῖς σοφοῖς ἧσσον.
~D
Last edited by whiteoctave on Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I'm afraid my offering is going to seem labored after whiteoctave's.
πιαίνεται μὴν ἀφρόνως ὕλῃ μόνον κλέπτης βίβλου λαίμαργος, οὐδέ τινι λόγῳ. εἴτ’ ἂν σπαράσσῃ ποικιλῶν ἑὸν δόμον τὰ ζωγραφήματ’ ἐξελών, γραφὰς βαλών, εἴτ’ ἂν μενοινῶν ἄργυρόν σφε πωλέῃ, κατεσθιέσθω θηρσί θ’ ἁρπάσοισί τε.
I apologize for the second line.
Edit: fixed 4th line.
πιαίνεται μὴν ἀφρόνως ὕλῃ μόνον κλέπτης βίβλου λαίμαργος, οὐδέ τινι λόγῳ. εἴτ’ ἂν σπαράσσῃ ποικιλῶν ἑὸν δόμον τὰ ζωγραφήματ’ ἐξελών, γραφὰς βαλών, εἴτ’ ἂν μενοινῶν ἄργυρόν σφε πωλέῃ, κατεσθιέσθω θηρσί θ’ ἁρπάσοισί τε.
I apologize for the second line.
Edit: fixed 4th line.
Last edited by annis on Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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I would say you should use ἔνθα for the "(to) where ..." idea, possibly with a participle phrase with ἄγω, φέρω, λαμβάνω or something similar.mingshey wrote:Well, I tried to say, in lines 1 and 2, something like,
"O (you who's) stealing(or, conceals) papyri and parchments and codices from libraries to where nobody's eye can see..."
ω} βιβλούς τε μεμβράνας τε καὶ πυκτίδας κλέπτων ἐκ βιβλιοθήκων ἐς ἥνδε οὐδένος ὤψ δυνατή ὁράειν
Corrections are always welcome.
Also, we're not allowed to not contract ὁράω.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Argh! I ran into Mr Porson several times writing this, and managed to placate him for the other lines.whiteoctave wrote:i fear your fourth line breaks Porson's Law, but it shouldn't be too difficult to change.
Hmm. γραφὰς βαλών?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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A shame πορσῶνι isn't a cretic.whiteoctave wrote:yes, RP is an annoyingly pervasive presence.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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No, don't worry, I am not coming late to this assignment with some primitive attempt. My attention is, although quite late, drawn by these two comments:
Annis wrote:Iambics are the customary meter for abuse
What determines what meter is fit or a certain subject? Where can I find examples of this, or of an overview of (all) meters and associated subjects?whiteoctave wrote: i would have thought choliambs, aka scazons, would have been more suited to invective.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Tradition. Except the rules for such pairing of meter and subject are never really clear-cut or fixed. Nagy discusses praise and blame poetry in The Best of the Achaeans.Kasper wrote:What determines what meter is fit or a certain subject?
The choliambs were invented by Hipponax whose poetry is famously angry (one author calls them squalid) so those meters were considered appropriate for venting for quite a while. But eventually this association faded and Babrius could write his quite tame verse versions of Aesopian fables in choliambs.
Certain cola and meters sometimes had associations with particular religious cults (the ithyphallic for songs for the phallophoria, etc.) or particular regions ("cretics"). But these associations don't seem to preclude the cola from being used widely elsewhere.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/ — http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Thanks Will! Great information as usual.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Sorry for coming in late to this discussion but Aristotle in Poetics, round about 1449 describes iambics as being suitable.
... these others began by composing invectives. [...], and it is still called iambics today, from being the metre in which they wrote 'iambs', or lampoons, against one another.
per Penelope Murray & T S Dorsch, 'Classical Literary Criticism', Penguin 2000
Paul McK
... these others began by composing invectives. [...], and it is still called iambics today, from being the metre in which they wrote 'iambs', or lampoons, against one another.
per Penelope Murray & T S Dorsch, 'Classical Literary Criticism', Penguin 2000
Paul McK