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Real Beginner

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Real Beginner

Postby Cyke » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:29 am

Hello,<br /> I am really new to this stuff. I was wondering if one of these beginner books on Textkit explains the different cases (Dative, Accusative, etc.) I really need help on that. I'm sure if I could figure those out and their uses it would be easier for me to learn Latin. Thank you.<br /><br /> -Cyke-
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Re:Real Beginner

Postby Nihil » Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:33 am

Download Latin for Beginners by D'ooge. He does a pretty good job in explaining them. If you want a really through explaination or just don't have the bandwith to download the books in a reasonable amount of time, here's a link to case section of Allen & Greenough's New Latin Grammar on Perseus http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001&query=head%3D%23231
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Re:Real Beginner

Postby mariek » Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:23 am

<br />Hi Cyke,<br /><br />Welcome to Textkit!<br /><br />Take a look at the Latin Grammar books available from this site.<br />http://www.textkit.com/latin-grammar.php<br /><br />There are two Beginners books you can download:<br /><br />Latin for Beginners by Benjamin L. D'Ooge<br />http://www.textkit.com/details.php?ID=108&author_id=13<br /><br />Beginner's Latin Book by Collar and Daniell<br />http://www.textkit.com/details.php?ID=113&author_id=41<br /><br />Both of these books will explain all the cases.<br /><br />I'm new to Latin too and am trying to get all of this straight, but here's the simplified way of how I've been trying to think of the cases:<br /><br />Nominative = subject<br />Genitive = possesor of something<br />Dative = to/for, especially as an indirect object<br />Accusative = direct object<br />Ablative = (prepositional use) from, with, by, in, at, etc...<br /><br />
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Re:Real Beginner

Postby Episcopus » Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:38 am

Dative and Accusative are also used with prepositions very frequently; you mustn't think of the albative as 'the prepositional case'. <br /><br />eg. finitimus, a , um (adjective) - near TO (+dative)<br /><br />laboro in agris finitimis (ablative) casae meae<br /><br />or acc. is used with in to show movement. <br /><br />propero in ludum (I hasten into the school)<br /><br />Also dative and ablative are used with certain verbs.<br />transitive verbs take accusative<br /><br />correct me if I be wrong, I a beginner too ;D
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Re:Real Beginner

Postby Nihil » Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:39 am

Cyke,<br /><br />Just to supplement Mariek's helpful chart, here's a English sentence to put it into practice with a short explanation (using the most common uses of the cases) to help you with the books':<br /><br />O men, by your money, you give happiness to the girls of the poor country.<br /><br />-------------------<br /><br />Vocative is the case of direct address. In the sentence, who are we addressing? The men of course: "O men." Men is functioning as the vocative noun.<br /><br />Nominative is the case of the subject of a finite verb. Do we have a finite verb? Yes, we do. It's "give." What is its subject? "You" is. "You" in this case is a nominative pronoun.<br /><br />Accusative is the direct object. The direct object is what or whom the transitive verb is directly affects. We have a transitive verb here, don't we? It's "give." What is being given? Happiness is what's being given of course. Thus happiness is the accusative noun.<br /><br />Dative usually specifies the indirect object, to/for what or to/for whom something is done -- the thing that "benefits" from the verb. We know we are giving happiness, but to whom are we giving it? To the girls of course. "Girls" is the indirect object, and therefore, is the accusative noun.<br /><br />Ablative is commonly used after prepositions (not always) and usually to specify manner and means. We have a preposition here: "by." Also it is specifying the means. How are the men giving the girls happiness? By their money, they give the girls happiness. That's the means. "your money" is in the ablative.<br /><br />Genitive commonly indicates possession or some kind of origin, usually a relation expressed by "of." It mainly answers, "Whose?" So, do we have a "whose-of" relation? Yes, we do between "poor country" and "girls" Whose girls? The poor country's girls. "Poor country" is the possessor, and would be the genitive.<br /><br />I know the English sentence sounds like what one would hear in a Latin textbook, but I've been reading them a lot, so it came out that way. However, I hope my explanation clarified key ideas on grammatical cases.
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Re:Real Beginner

Postby Nihil » Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:41 am

<br />[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=409;start=0#3193 date=1060425534]<br />Dative and Accusative are also used with prepositions very frequently; you mustn't think of the albative as 'the prepositional case'. <br /><br />eg. finitimus, a , um (adjective) - near TO (+dative)<br /><br />laboro in agris finitimis (ablative) casae meae<br /><br />or acc. is used with in to show movement. <br /><br />propero in ludum (I hasten into the school)<br /><br />Also dative and ablative are used with certain verbs.<br />transitive verbs take accusative<br /><br />correct me if I be wrong, I a beginner too ;D <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Yes, certain prepositions take the accusative with motion just as in German. Also, Cyke, remember some verbs don't admit to a direct object, so watch that accusative.
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Re:Real Beginner

Postby Keesa » Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:01 am

This is great! I've been trying to figure out just how all those cases went together, and never even thought of asking you guys! :-[ Well, I guess that will teach me a lesson! :)<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Real Beginner

Postby mariek » Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:24 am

[quote author=Keesa link=board=3;threadid=409;start=0#3199 date=1060426896]<br />This is great! I've been trying to figure out just how all those cases went together, and never even thought of asking you guys! [/quote]<br /><br />Don't be afraid of asking questions; that's what this site is for! Learning! Everyone here is very nice, we promise we won't bite. ;)<br /><br />
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Re:Real Beginner

Postby Puella Parva » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:53 am

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=409;start=0#3281 date=1060482242]<br /><br /><br />Don't be afraid of asking questions; that's what this site is for! Learning! Everyone here is very nice, we promise we won't bite. ;)<br /><br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />I hope not!! I think I'm allergic to human bites ;)<br />
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