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properat vs maturat

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properat vs maturat

Postby mariek » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:11 pm

What's the difference between properat and maturat? They both mean "hasten". Are they interchangeable? How do you decide which word to use?
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby Magistra » Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:49 pm

Add to those -- festinat & contendit. Synonyms. There may have been a slight difference in nuances for each, but that would need more research. (And, the shades of meaning probably changed over the centuries.)<br /><br />Magistra
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby klewlis » Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:10 pm

on that topic, is there a semantic lexicon for latin that explains different nuances like this?<br /><br />i'm thinking of Louw-Nida's new testament greek one, which lets you look up *ranges* of words based on their general meaning and usage, so that you can compare the semantics of each. <br /><br />i guess that would be harder with latin since there's such a large time period to cover, and the meanings would change...
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby benissimus » Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:09 am

Some dictionaries (Cassel's for sure) list different uses of words and example sentences by ancient reputable authors.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby Moerus » Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:21 am

In current language the Romans must have used this words like synonyms. But in fact there were little nuances. <br />The is a book in German who gives the differences; <br /><br />Hermann Menge, Lateinische Synonymik. Siebte, unveränderte Auflage von O. Schönberger (Heidelberg, 1988).<br /><br />Properare = go forward energeticly to a purpose. Mostly with a positive connotation.<br /><br />Contendere is also with a positive connotation and = go forward with all the power you have.<br /><br />festinare = go forward cause you are impatient (negative connotation).<br /><br />maturare = do something really fast, that you heve prepared in advance for achieving a purpose.<br /><br />These are the little differences you find in the book.<br />363 German words are explained in it. Only it's in German.
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby mariek » Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:26 am

[quote author=Moerus link=board=3;threadid=315;start=0#2523 date=1059790861]<br />Hermann Menge, Lateinische Synonymik. Siebte, unveränderte Auflage von O. Schönberger (Heidelberg, 1988). [/quote]<br /><br />This sounds like a very useful reference book. Is there an English version? <br />
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby Moerus » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:10 am

I really don't know if there is an English version. I think not, but I am not sure.<br /><br />Although sometimes you can find an alternative in an other language. I know there is also a book in Dutch: <br /><br />Vangenechten, Het juiste Latijnsche woord. <br /><br />But this book is relly old and I think you can't buy it any more. <br /><br />Maybe you can, when you look in the old book / used book section. <br /><br />And otherwise maybe in the library. <br />But I know it's verry difficult to find these books.<br /><br />Good luck!
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby adz000 » Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:12 pm

A work like this on Latin synonyms is indispensible -- and also unavailable.<br /><br />The only version I know, and will boast about owning, is an 1860 American imprint of an English abridgment of Ludwig Doderlein's six-volume "Lateinische Synonymen und Etymologien " printed between 1826 and 1828 done by a certain Rev. H.H. Arnold (could he be related to the illustrious Rev. Thomas Kirchever Arnold of Prose Composition fame/infamy?)<br /><br />Of Doderlein himself, an old encyclopedia entry says "his most elaborate work as a philologist was marred by over-subtlety, and lacked method and clearness", which may give you a sense of the sort of 19th century voodoo philology that went into the work.<br /><br />Still, I find it on the whole to be extremely helpful especially where it quotes frequently. It made my month to stumble across it at used book store for $9, but it just might be available for purchase online at a site like http://abebooks.com .<br /><br />On the bright side, it looks like WPC (edited by John Traupman) is releasing a dictionary of synonyms in May 2003. Since the date has passed and the book is still unavailable, I'm not sure what to make of it.<br /><br />Best,<br />Adam
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby mariek » Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:13 am

[quote author=adz000 link=board=3;threadid=315;start=0#3153 date=1060384329]<br />On the bright side, it looks like WPC (edited by John Traupman) is releasing a dictionary of synonyms in May 2003. Since the date has passed and the book is still unavailable, I'm not sure what to make of it. [/quote]<br /><br />Would you happen to know the title of this book? <br /><br />What does "WPC" stand for?<br /><br />The name John Traupman sounds very familiar, but I can't put my finger on it... <br />
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby adz000 » Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:28 pm

WPC: (Wimbledon Publishing Classics)<br />"WPC Classics brings some of the most effective and best-loved publications from previous years, books currently out-of-print. WPC Classics is making the wisdom and teaching of classic older texts available once more, and are also developing a range of exciting new resources. Editor-in-Chief of the Series is John Traupman, PhD, St Joseph's University, Philadelphia."<br />It looks like one can order The Dictionary of Latin Synonyms here: http://styluspub.com/series116.html<br /><br />John Traupman: I would like to know more about him. He seems to be emeritus professor of classics at St. John's (www.sju.edu) in Philadelphia, but websearches are proving more than usually futile for uncovering a curriculum vitae and his contributions to the field.<br /><br />I wish I had some sort of review before recommending a $40 book, but I don't think it could go that wrong without being useful despite itself. Even a raw list of synonyms for certain words is incredibly helpful.<br /><br />Another suggestion that just dawned on me. A Gradus ad Parnassum might be a good supplement as well. These were thesauri specifically written for the student of Latin verse composition, so they show great invention in selecting synonyms (metri gratia) and the better editions quote abundantly. I believe the first Gradus was a Jesuit publication in the 15th/16th century and they've been printed well into the 19th century. If you can get a hold of it, F. Noel published a French edition (1814) that even mines neo-Latin as a source for vocabulary. It includes phrases and epithets and often quotes entire poems to illustrate one word. Unfortunately it doesn't give you any information about divergences in meaning, and its emphasis on verse composition won't help the beginner. Still what's not to love about the 20 some-odd quotations of Vergil I find when I look up "festinare":<br /><br />Festino, as, avi, atum, are. n. Festinate, viri; nam quae tam sera moratur Segnities? Virg. SYN. Celero, accelero, propero, appropero, advolo, maturo. PHR. Rapidis passibus feror, volo, avolo, evolo. Moras pello, tollo. Accelerare gradum. Maturare fugam. Celerem gradum concitare. Nec mora, nec requies. Tenuit mora nulla vocatos.<br />(20+ quotes from Virgil and others follow)<br /><br />Incredibly useful if you're willing to hear the tones of these words in context, which is for me by far the most difficult part of learning Latin. How do you hear accelerare without distortion from cognates like 'accelerate'?<br /><br />Best,<br />Adam
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby adz000 » Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:30 pm

If you do purchase the book, be sure to follow up because I'd love to hear how it goes!
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby Milito » Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:16 pm

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=315;start=0#3183 date=1060413215]<br /><br />The name John Traupman sounds very familiar, but I can't put my finger on it... <br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Traupman also wrote a book called "Conversational Latin", which has been mentioned a time or two.<br /><br />On the subject of synonyms, I found an (old) composition book with a glossary of synonyms in the back, which is really good. The glossary is in English, but then gives various Latin terms which could all be used to translate the English term, and explains the connotations attached to each one. The book is by Daniell, who's one of the authors of one of the Textkit grammars, so it may be locatable in places other than Winnipeg.... I just wish that I could find more glossaries of synonyms like it!<br /><br />Kilmeny
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby mariek » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:43 am

[quote author=adz000 link=board=3;threadid=315;start=0#3223 date=1060446514]<br />WPC: (Wimbledon Publishing Classics)<br />It looks like one can order The Dictionary of Latin Synonyms here: http://styluspub.com/series116.html [/quote]<br /><br />I'll have to keep my eyes open for other offerings from WPC. The Dictionary of Latin Synonyms sounds interesting, I just wish I could look at it in a bookstore before deciding. But it doesn't sound like a book that will be easily found at a bookstore. I wonder if it will eventually be offered on Amazon; I like how they show you some sample pages of books they sell.<br /><br />Gradus ad Parnassum sounds interesting as well, but this must be even harder to find?<br />
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby mariek » Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:47 am

[quote author=Milito link=board=3;threadid=315;start=0#3229 date=1060460212]<br />Traupman also wrote a book called "Conversational Latin", which has been mentioned a time or two. [/quote]<br /><br />Ah... perhaps that's where I've heard his name before! I even added the book to my Amazon Wish List! <br />
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Re:properat vs maturat

Postby adz000 » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:51 am

Gradus ad Parnassum were common enough once to still be common now, so long as you know where to look for them. Since there are so many great publications out of print, it's essential you have multiple ways of finding rare books. A good library may have a copy, and some services allow you to borrow from other library holdings. The internet is a great resource; check out http://abebooks.com, or http://bookfinder.com (which is a meta-search engine of several bookstores), http://alibris.com. Check used book stores in the area.<br /><br />Great story about learning Latin, by the way. :)
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