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Association of skill

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Association of skill

Postby Carola » Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:57 am

Well, from our topic "Truth & Music" I posed another meaningless question:<br />"Well, maybe that is another topic for discussion - why are so many musicians mathematically minded? It is very common and has been commented on many times (its not just a fluke thing with my own group of friends). Is there a part of the brain which is associated with numbers/music? What about other artists (or writers/dancers & so on). Are there other skills which go hand in hand with poets? This could open a whole field of meaningless research "<br />Raya has challenged me to post this as another topic, so here we go. All you dancers/geographers, truck driving poets and Greek Historian/pole vaulters - tell us of the strange skills relationships you know of. <br />This is meant to be a serious subject folks!
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Milito » Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:08 pm

As observed in the original thread (apparently I should stop being such a linear person and step back to look at the big picture a bit more....) aptitude in music has been linked to chessplaying as well as math, and that combination has also been linked to cryptanalysis (the breaking of codes, not tombs!)<br /><br />I can see a relationship between linguistics and codebreaking, actually, and it's demonstrated by Michael Ventris deciphering Linear B, so maybe addiction to classical languages and computer science, even when combined with a military flavour, isn't an odd combination after all........<br /><br />Or perhaps, to get all esoteric, these odd combinations of "art meets science" (as, for example, music meets math) are an attempt by two distinct and extreme parts of a personality to balance each other? (The Left Brain/Right Brain theory run amok....)<br /><br />Kilmeny
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Raya » Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:19 am

Theatre is my thing - I adore it especially because it combines various art forms into one synergistic bundle: you have linguistic/literary art, dance/movement, visual elements (costumes/sets/lighting), music and other sound, and of course acting itself... in my time I've taken part in so many aspects of putting on a production - performing, set construction, costume and lighting design, and even box office. I don't know why, but even a task which would normally strike me as mundane - like creating a database for the stage manager to keep track of cast and crew details - becomes suddenly interesting if it's connected to a production...<br /><br />Aside from all that - I'm a hardcore gamer!!! I don't know if computer gaming counts as a "skill" as such, but I'm certainly into it and (for the most part) am pretty good at it. My favourite genres are RPG (Role-Playing Games, where you create your own character and develop it throughout the game) and Adventure (where you play the main character and have to talk to other characters and manipulate the objects around you to solve puzzles so you can progress). Basically, these are games which involve some sort of creative element, and considering my general artistic interests I don't find the attraction too surprising...
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Carola » Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:27 am

Yes, I don't think it matters whether it is a "useful" skill, ie something we do to earn money or benefit mankind, but how our mind tends to "enjoy" doing something. The code-breaking skills that Milito mentions are really in this class - you wouldn't be willing to spend hours doing something like that unless it gave you a lot of pleasure and satisfaction. <br />Thinking about some of my artist friends (painters & potters) I have noticed that most of them are,well, how can I put it kindly? Let's just say numbers are not their thing! However, most of them have excellent conversational skills and make good negotiators. Is visual art another way of "conversing"?
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Re:Association of skill

Postby benissimus » Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:26 pm

This question poses another question... how do we know what is connected or not or if what we believe to be connected is a faulty assumption. Perhaps by contributing to this discussion we are only listing our talents and conjecturing which ones are interrelated :o<br /><br />Regardless, I find that I have acute analytical skills and a fair amount of discipline in enacting feats or tasks which will stand up to analytical scrutiny. I find joy in nearly all types art and fine literature, I enjoy music, and I have a love for strategy games. I also have a knack for linguistics and in school I am often able to find a formula for a mathematical pattern I see without calculation (consciously at least).
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Zeus the Goddess » Sun Jun 08, 2003 6:07 am

O benissimus!<br />I agree! I like Greek and I like donuts - what is the connection, please? ::)<br /><br />(and don't try to tell me that Greek and its appreciation a skill, but not so for Donuts!)
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Raya » Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:16 pm

I have to agree with benissimus and TGZ on this one - well, to some extent, anyway.<br /><br />You could say that this question falls into the domain of Psychology, and the whole problem with this discipline - in particular the scientific perspectives (biomedical and behavioural/ cognitive) - is that while we might observe several phenomena occurring together (e.g. excess dopamine with schizophrenic behaviour), we do not know that these are related at all. And even if they are related, we cannot tell what the relationship is. It is thought by many that excess dopamine is causes schizophrenic behaviour - but then, it might be that schizophrenic behaviour causes dopamine production! (and, presumably, that the behaviour is caused by some other factor).<br /><br />But - on the other hand - I don't think that such research is quite as ridiculous as TGZ suggests. Taking my previous post, for instance: although adventure games and theatre are worlds apart, they have something in common - they both call on the people who partake in them to use their creativity - so perhaps this points out that, at heart, my strong point is being creative. If this is true, it is knowledge which could prove useful to me - for instance, it suggests that I might do well in a career involving creativity.<br /><br />But to find a relationship between liking Greek and liking donuts would take quite a creative leap! Hmm... they both induce pleasure for you, that's about all I can think of... but I don't think it tells us very much about you except that you like things that you enjoy! (and who doesn't?)
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Milito » Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:29 pm

[quote author=Raya link=board=13;threadid=139;start=0#738 date=1055085373]<br />But to find a relationship between liking Greek and liking donuts would take quite a creative leap! Hmm... they both induce pleasure for you, that's about all I can think of... [/quote]<br /><br />There are many circular-ish-shaped letters in Greek. When you draw these with a pencil (or pen, or whatever), you get a line connecting in a shape that is related very much to a circle, with this blank spot in the middle - not unlike the shape of the donut! It's all related to a liking for rounded geometrical shapes! (Particularly those with plenty of sugar added......)<br /><br />Kilmeny
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Re:Association of skill

Postby jagorev » Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:28 pm

Certainly, correlation isn't causation, but there does seem to be a great many people with strong skills in both math and music.<br /><br />Anyone noticed a secondary strong skillset for people with great verbal skills? Good writers, poets, playwrights, lawyers, journalists, "Sophists", what else do they seem to do very well?
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Re:Association of skill

Postby benissimus » Mon Jun 09, 2003 3:40 am

Hmm... there is a saying about how the greatest minds are often eccentric ;D
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Carola » Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:37 am

[quote author=jagorev link=board=13;threadid=139;start=0#751 date=1055107710]<br />Certainly, correlation isn't causation, but there does seem to be a great many people with strong skills in both math and music.<br /><br />Anyone noticed a secondary strong skillset for people with great verbal skills? Good writers, poets, playwrights, lawyers, journalists, "Sophists", what else do they seem to do very well?<br />[/quote]<br />Maybe they become used car salespersons if they don't take up law or journalism! <br />On a more serious side, maybe there are a lot of people out there who would have become great writers or playwrights if they had had a better education or some encouragement when they were young - even if they weren't making a living out of it but did it purely for pleasure. A good case for insisting that the education system includes art, classics & music as well as the more "practical" subjects. The result might be a lot of happier people with a lot less mental problems!
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Re:Association of skill

Postby vinobrien » Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:25 am

"Maybe they become used car salespersons if they don't take up law or journalism!" <br /><br />No, they go on to advertising and related areas in my experience. I work in a building with some hundreds of them. 8)<br /><br />Lately, however, I've been forced to work with medical education people who are generally PhD/MPhil in sciences and who write for a living! Their writing however is necessarily not what might be termed imaginative and, I gather, there are no crossovers into "art writing".<br /><br /><br />"maybe there are a lot of people out there who would have become great writers or playwrights if they had had a better education or some encouragement when they were young" <br /><br />Gray's "mute, inglorious Miltons" have been the subject of a huge amount of written debate, largely by those same Miltons. Which tends to suggest that they aren't mute even if glory lacks them. ;) <br /><br />By the way, do we have a link between this thread and the bicameral brain upon which, to bring it kicking and screaming back to our main topic, there has been some interesting writing in connection with Homer?<br />
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Keesa » Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:32 pm

[quote author=jagorev link=board=13;threadid=139;start=0#751 date=1055107710]<br />Certainly, correlation isn't causation, but there does seem to be a great many people with strong skills in both math and music.<br /><br />Hmm...odd. I play piano and flute, and sing, and yet my brain has difficulty with the simplest of mathematical formulas (okay, not the simplest, but the medium-difficulty ones. Algebra especially...) And yet, I've been told that I play piano and sing very well. (I have not been told the same thing with my flute-I don't think people enjoy the strange pseudo-musical sounds I have managed to produce with it so far... ;D) <br /><br />Anyone noticed a secondary strong skillset for people with great verbal skills? Good writers, poets, playwrights, lawyers, journalists, "Sophists", what else do they seem to do very well?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />Okay, let's see if I can help you out here. I am, by profession, a creative freelance writer. However, my hobbies include breaking verbal codes (not numerical ones!), philology (that means the study of languages, if I managed to spell it right), philosophy, reading and debate. Also, three people I know have called me a "walking dictionary" because I can, ninety five times out of a hundred, give the correct definition for a word off the top of my head. <br /><br />It would seem to me that my connection is a simple love of words. <br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Keesa » Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:34 pm

[quote author=benissimus link=board=13;threadid=139;start=0#755 date=1055130033]<br />Hmm... there is a saying about how the greatest minds are often eccentric ;D<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I once heard someone say that the only difference between people with severe mental disorders and geniuses was about fifty years...<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Association of skill

Postby benissimus » Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:57 pm

[quote author=Keesa link=board=13;threadid=139;start=0#3118 date=1060349640]<br /><br />I once heard someone say that the only difference between people with severe mental disorders and geniuses was about fifty years...<br /><br />Keesa<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Hmm... what does that mean? I think most geniuses cope with mental disorder concurrently!
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Keesa » Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:23 pm

In plain English, I think what she was trying to say was that all geniuses are considered crazy until about fifty years after they're dead, at which time the adjective "crazy" becomes "brilliant". ;D<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Association of skill

Postby ASim » Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:06 pm

Lawyering and alcoholism are supposedly somewhat highly correlated; so are lawyering and getting divorced. Not exactly skills, perhaps.<br /><br />Having a higher education (I guess graduate degrees?) is correlated with increased rates of suicides. Also not a skill.<br /><br />In my experience, philosophizing is correlated with not dating, being/getting married etc. Also with dressing really, really poorly (only math might be worse). Lack of skills, of sorts.
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Lumen_et_umbra » Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:25 pm

I tend to think a muscial predilection to be a precursor to being mathematically-minded. In reading, and writing music, one must constantly use math and must understand it readily without any time-consuming computations (Sometimes writing notes in a measure can become an ugly mess of fractions, which may seem unintelligible at first.) When a person in a math class works with fractions, he knows what they sybolize, but the cause and effect are not quite associated with one another in his mind; when a person reads musical notes, he will be rewarded with non-discordant notes when he strikes the right keys for the correct lengths of time, thus he directly see a whole scheme of causality in play, which reinforces mathematical ability with greater efficacy.<br /><br />Keeping an even beat in one's mind whilst trying to fit an odd arrangement of 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 notes can be difficult. (These notes can be modified to equal their value plus half and all that bricka-brack.) There are also musical indicators such as "crescendo" that modify the tempo, and thus modify the length of each individual note necessitating that the musician make lengthy computations instantly.<br /><br />On an interesting sidenote, my mom is(or was) one of the best piano players I have ever seen. She used to be able to play Flight of the Bumble Bee and was one of the best site readers in America (She has neglected her passion for about 10 years now, so she is not able to play quite so well as she used to.) However, she has always been terrible at math (or so she says). I think it merely intimidates her, but regardless of the cause, she doesn't do so well. She is very intelligent; I hate to see her underestimating herself, and limiting her potential. :'(<br /><br /> ;)
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Episcopus » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:32 pm

Truck drivers are underrated. <br /><br />There are silly truckers who are equally talented, lazy and cooperative.<br /><br />Yes I do have a soft spot for silly truckers.
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Re:Association of skill

Postby Keesa » Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:52 am

I like truck drivers. All the truck drivers I've ever met (admittedly few) have been very nice. <br /><br />There are many things that seem to go with certain professions (lawyering and alcoholism, for example) but I'd hardly call them skills, either. <br /><br />I think that there are some skills (math and music) that are connected by mental similarities between the two, while there are others (lawyers and debate) that are bound together more openly. (Try picturing a tongue-tied lawyer and you'll see what I mean. :D) Then there are the less-than-skills that seem to follow naturally with certain professions. <br /><br />Nothing in life is ever easy to figure out, is it? <br /><br />Keesa
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