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uden allo... e

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uden allo... e

Postby Eureka » Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:39 am

On pages 18 and 19 of Thrasymachus there are a couple of sentences with [face=SPIonic]ou0de\n a1llo [/face] followed by [face=SPIonic]h2[/face] later in the sentence.

I think [face=SPIonic]ou0de\n a1llo [/face]means "no-one else", but I can't see how [face=SPIonic]h2[/face] fits in. It seems to be a non-literal expression. :?

Here are the quotes: (Both from Aphrodite.)

[face=SPIonic]a9marta&nete, w} fi/lai: ou0de\n ga_r a1llo h2 filei= ta_j gunai=kaj, w(&sper oi9 a1lloi a1ndrej.

a)ll )ou0de\n a!llo le/gw h2 peri\ tw~n a)nqrw&pwn.[/face]


My translations:

"You are making a mistake, friends; because no-one else likes women, like the other men."

"But I talk to no-one about humanity."

I'm sure my translations are wrong, because the first one makes very little sense, and the second seems like a very random statement. (This is supposed to be at the judgment of Paris.)

Can someone please shed some light on this, because it's all Greek to me?
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Postby Paul » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:55 am

Hi,

See Smyth 2777-2779, especially 2778 where [face=SPIonic]ou)den a)/llo h)/[/face] is said to mean 'nothing else than'.

Cordially,

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Postby Eureka » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:26 am

Ahhh, thanks Paul.

I understand, now.

"He likes nothing else than women, like other men"

"But I'm talking about nothing but people."

Now she makes sense. :)
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Postby Eureka » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:56 am

As a side note, I just found the definition of [face=SPIonic]h1[/face] as "than" in Thrasymachus. It's in the English to Greek vocab but not in the Greek to English. For a book first pubished four decades ago, it has a fair few errors. (It's an excellent book, though.)

BTW, does anyone else's copy of the book have a few wayward kappas? (i.e. [face=SPIonic]ka0gaqo/j[/face] instead of [face=SPIonic]a0gaqo/j[/face]) :)
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Postby Koala » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:11 am

yes, my Thrasymachus has [face=SPIonic]k'a0gaqo/j[/face] too - but I've always taken it
as a contraction of [face=SPIonic]kai\ a0gaqo/j [/face]-
? is this correct[face=Arial][/face]
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Postby mingshey » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:28 am

Koala wrote:yes, my Thrasymachus has [face=SPIonic]k'a0gaqo/j[/face] too - but I've always taken it
as a contraction of [face=SPIonic]kai\ a0gaqo/j [/face]-
? is this correct[face=Arial][/face]


Yeah, I think so. As far as I can recall.
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Postby Eureka » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:59 am

mingshey wrote:
Koala wrote:yes, my Thrasymachus has [face=SPIonic]k'a0gaqo/j[/face] too - but I've always taken it
as a contraction of [face=SPIonic]kai\ a0gaqo/j [/face]-
? is this correct[face=Arial][/face]


Yeah, I think so. As far as I can recall.
Oh, I didn't think even a contracted word could have a breathing mark on a non-initial vowel. :?

(BTW, mine doesn't say [face=SPIonic]k'a0gaqo/j[/face], it says [face=SPIonic]ka0gaqo/j[/face].)
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Postby Emma_85 » Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:37 am

Oh, I didn't think even a contracted word could have a breathing mark on a non-initial vowel.


They do still retain their breathing marks, though, so you can tell if they are contracted or not.

They must have just forgotten the [face=spionic]h)/ [/face] though :roll: .
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Postby Eureka » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:18 am

Emma_85 wrote:They do still retain their breathing marks, though, so you can tell if they are contracted or not.
Is this common, or does it just happen with [face=SPIonic]a)gaqo/j[/face]?
Emma_85 wrote:They must have just forgotten the [face=spionic]h)/ [/face] though :roll: .
Since the book has been reprinted, you'd think they could've fixed it.
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Postby annis » Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:26 pm

Emma_85 wrote:
Oh, I didn't think even a contracted word could have a breathing mark on a non-initial vowel.


They do still retain their breathing marks, though, so you can tell if they are contracted or not.


Technically that's not a breathing mark, but a sign of crasis. Of course, it looks like a breathing mark. But if you have crasis in [face=spionic]kai\ o([/face] you write [face=spionic]xw)[/face], not [face=spionic]xw([/face].
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Postby Emma_85 » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:17 pm

Technically that's not a breathing mark, but a sign of crasis. Of course, it looks like a breathing mark. But if you have crasis in kai\ o( you write xw), not xw(.


Ahh... thanks, I thought the contraction with an aspirated word itself was called krasis, hehehe seems a bit stupid now that I think about it :roll: .

Well you can have krasis with other words too, such as:
[face=spionic]ta)~lla[/face] < [face=spionic]ta\ a)/lla[/face]
or (a more annoying contraction)
[face=spionic]tou)nanti/on[/face] < [face=spionic]to\ e)nanti/on [/face]

All you need to remember is that if you find a word with a krasis you'll have to work out which word it originally came from.
[face=spionic]tou)nanti/on[/face]
The krasis tells you it's a contraction, and ou is often a contraction product of e + o, o + e, o + ou, o + o; Hehehe, then all you have to do is see what makes sense and what doesn't.
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Postby nefercheprure » Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:28 pm

Emma_85 wrote:Well you can have krasis with other words too, such as:
[face=spionic]ta)~lla[/face] < [face=spionic]ta\ a)/lla[/face]
or (a more annoying contraction)
[face=spionic]tou)nanti/on[/face] < [face=spionic]to\ e)nanti/on [/face]


[face=spionic]ta)lhqh= le/geij...[/face] = [face=spionic]ta\ a)lhqh= le/geij...[/face]
... Thrasymachos XVI [face=spionic]oi)/koi[/face] second paragraph

[face=spionic]ka)gw/ ... kai\ e)gw/[/face]
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