Yet another query...

Are you learning Koine Greek, the Greek of the New Testament and most other post-classical Greek texts? Whatever your level, use this forum to discuss all things Koine, Biblical or otherwise, including grammar, textbook talk, difficult passages, and more.
Post Reply
Ray
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:06 pm

Yet another query...

Post by Ray »

Hi, I am confused again. This time I want to know the distinction between these two phrases. [size=150] λεγετε τουτον τον λογον [/size] Which means "you speak this word". As compared to [size=150] λεγετε τον λογον[/size] First of all is that correct to say in the first place and if so would that mean "You speak 'a' word" as opposed to "You speak 'this' word".

Also what the heck does [size=150] τουτον[/size] or [size=150] τουτους[/size] mean in the first place?

User avatar
klewlis
Global Moderator
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Contact:

Post by klewlis »

Both words are forms of [size=134]οὑτος[/size], which is simply an adjective meaning "this". In your example [size=134]τουτον[/size] is used because it is the masculine accusative singular form, which matches [size=134]λογον[/size]. So, it really just means "this word" as opposed to "a" word, "the" word, or "that" word. In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.
First say to yourself what you would be; then do what you need to do. ~Epictetus

Ray
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:06 pm

Post by Ray »

I get it now. Thanks again.

Bert
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Post by Bert »

klewlis wrote: In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.
Can it be "a word"? I can't think of a reason why λεγετε τον λογον would be "you speak A word" (Just because I can't think of a reason, does not mean there is no reason. That's why I ask.)

Paul
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 708
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: Maryland
Contact:

Re: Yet another query...

Post by Paul »

Ray wrote:Hi, I am confused again. This time I want to know the distinction between these two phrases. [size=150] λεγετε τουτον τον λογον [/size] Which means "you speak this word". As compared to [size=150] λεγετε τον λογον[/size]
Hi Ray,

The demonstrative force ('this') of [size=150]οὗτος[/size] often refers to something that's already been said. So, "this word" in "you say this word" likely refers to a saying that is known.

There is another demonstrative pronoun - [size=150]ὅδε[/size] - which also means 'this'. But it usually refers to something not yet mentioned. So, [size=150]λέγεις τάδε[/size]
would mean "you speak this (these)" in the sense "you speak as follows".

Cordially,

Paul

Ray
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:06 pm

Post by Ray »

Thanks alot guys I'd be really confused now if it were not for you guys.

User avatar
klewlis
Global Moderator
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Contact:

Post by klewlis »

Bert wrote:
klewlis wrote: In your second example it could be "a word" or "the word", depending on the context.
Can it be "a word"? I can't think of a reason why λεγετε τον λογον would be "you speak A word" (Just because I can't think of a reason, does not mean there is no reason. That's why I ask.)
I think it can, in some cases (someone correct me if I'm wrong). But I should have had just "word". :)
First say to yourself what you would be; then do what you need to do. ~Epictetus

Post Reply