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BLD §99 II.2 translation

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BLD §99 II.2 translation

Postby Timothy » Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:37 pm

I think the translation of the exercise in §99 II.2 isn't correct. I'm trying to reconcile the phrase "in castra Romana".

English: My son Sextus is carrying his booty to the Roman camp
Key: Filius meus Sextus praedam suam in castra Romana portat.
Meos: Filius meus Sextus praedam suam ad castros Romanos portat.

Here's how I broke this down:

in castra "in (on) the camp" ?

§53 gives the adjective in that has the ablative of the noun to which it refers, while "to the camp" uses ad which takes the accusative of the noun.

castrum, -i, n means camp only in the plural (castros).

Therefore, castros is the accusative plural of castrum.

Romanus, -a, um must agree in gender, number, and case with castros, so this is neuter, plural, accusative: Romanos.

ad castros Romanos

- Tim
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Postby ingrid70 » Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:13 pm

I agree with you that you're expected to use 'ad' + acc here; I checked the book, and 'in' + acc is introduced in paragraph 209.

However, as castrum is neuter, the acc.plu ends in -a, as does the nom.plu: ad castra Romana.

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Postby Timothy » Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:35 pm

ingrid70 wrote:I agree with you that you're expected to use 'ad' + acc here; I checked the book, and 'in' + acc is introduced in paragraph 209.
Ingrid


Sigh. I'm having a hard enough time keeping it attached to the ablative. ;)

ingrid70 wrote:However, as castrum is neuter, the acc.plu ends in -a, as does the nom.plu: ad castra Romana.



Thank you! That's where I got tripped up.

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BLD Paragraph 99 (page 43) II.2 translation to Latin

Postby Rhuiden » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:13 am

2. My son Sextus is carrying his booty to the Roman Camp.

In translating this sentence into Latin, I am having a hard time understanding why "to the Roman Camp" is not : ad castro Romano (dative singular). I see that the footnote says it is not dative but not why.

Also the key translates it as: "in castra Romana" (dat. or acc. plural). Why is this plural, there is only one camp? I am probably making a stupid mistake and will feel very silly when someone explains this to me but I can't seem to figure it out myself.

Thanks for any help you can give.
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Postby Timothy » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:56 am

First, you're right about the use of ad. At this point in the text you use what you have been given. As I mention in the post above, § 53 tells you that ad takes the accusative of the noun it modifies.

However, as ingrid70 duly points out to me that my declination of the word castrum is incorrect. Castrum is a neuter noun and means camp only when used in the plural. So, decline castrum:

Singular
Code: Select all
nom.: castrum
gen.: castri
dat.: castro
acc.: castrum
abl.: castro


Plural
Code: Select all
nom.: castra
gen.: castrorum
dat.: castris
acc.: castra
abl.: castris


Also keep in mind that "motion towards" is not the dative case.

Make sense?

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Postby Rhuiden » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:25 am

§ 53 tells you that ad takes the accusative of the noun it modifies.


Castrum is a neuter noun and means camp only when used in the plural.

I missed these two things when I was translating. Looks like I have some more studying to do.

Thanks for your help.
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Postby Episcopus » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:27 am

Well, in may be ablative or accusative. Just get an instinct that ablative is stationary and accusative denotes movement. You can have prepositions such as sub and super which also take either accusative or ablative.
Compare:

1. Steven super castris volat.
2. Steven super castra volat.

The first one implies pretty much hovering I imagine. hmm...it's quite an evil thought. The second phrase shows that he flies over it and is moving past it.
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