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A word from Aristotle

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A word from Aristotle

Postby medea » Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:46 pm

[face=SPIonic]h(=xqai[/face]

I've no idea whether this word means "lead" or "begin"~~~~
and would u please tell me the accidence of it~~~~~

Thanx a lot
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Re: A word from Aristotle

Postby nefercheprure » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:41 pm

medea wrote:[face=SPIonic]h(=xqai[/face]

I've no idea whether this word means "lead" or "begin"~~~~
and would u please tell me the accidence of it~~~~~

Thanx a lot


Did you mean
[face=SPIonic]h)=xqai[/face] ?
it is impossible for a word to start with a rough breathing and a vovel immediately followed by an aspirated consonant. (A rule of no known exceptions, hence very useful.)

if it be so, it seems to be derived from [face=SPIonic]a)/gw[/face]
as a perfect middle/passive infinitive

Which of the possible meanings of [face=SPIonic]a)/gw[/face] can however be perhaps only told from the surrounding context.

Can you quote the full sentence for us?
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Postby Paul » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:04 pm

Hi medea,

See http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/mo ... x?lookup=h)=xqai&lang=greek

nefercheprure wrote:it is impossible for a word to start with a rough breathing and a vowel immediately followed by an aspirated consonant. (A rule of no known exceptions, hence very useful.)


Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but what of:

[face=SPIonic]e(fqo/j[/face]
[face=SPIonic]h(/fqh[/face]
[face=SPIonic]h(=xi[/face]

Not to mention the name Hephaestus?

Cordially,

Paul
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Postby Miltiades » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:23 pm

can u tell us where exactly in Aristotle this word resides? It's very weird...
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Postby mingshey » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:07 am

Searched perseus for it, though I'm not sure medea has meant this line :). Anyways, wonderful perseus (thumbs up)!

[face=SPIonic]dio\ dei= h)=xqai/ pwj eu)qu\j e)k ne/wn, w(j o( Pla/twn fhsi/n, w(/ste xai/rein te kai\ lupei=sqai oi(=j dei=: [/face]

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... e%3D%23156

see line 10, please.
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apologize for replying late

Postby medea » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:53 am

apologize for replying late

here
Aristotle,Nicomachean Ethics,1095b1,(1),line4.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... =1095a%201

You can find out my quoted passage here.And I want to kown not only what does it mean,but also the transform of it and what kind of the termination .............would u please help me analyze it??
Thanx a lot.......
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Re: apologize for replying late

Postby Democritus » Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:36 pm

medea wrote:And I want to kown not only what does it mean,but also the transform of it and what kind of the termination .............would u please help me analyze it??


Hello medea,

That link that Paul posted points to a page which contains what you are looking for:

[face=SPIonic]h)=xqai[/face] - perf inf mid/pass

That's what you were looking for, isn't it: Pefect Infinitive, Middle/Passive. The fifth principle part of [face=SPIonic]a)/gw[/face] is [face=SPIonic]h)=gmai[/face].

Note that in the perfect tense, the [face=SPIonic]a[/face] becomes [face=SPIonic]h[/face] because of reduplication, not because of augment. Augment is only used in historic indicative tenses (impefect, aorist) but reduplication is present in all moods of the perfect tense, including the infinitive. What's confusing is that, if the verb stem starts with a vowel, reduplication looks identical to augment. So it looks like the infinitive is augmented, but infinitive is not augmented, it's reduplicated. Also, [face=SPIonic]g[/face] becomes [face=SPIonic]x[/face] because of the aspirated consonant [face=SPIonic]q[/face].

[face=SPIonic]h)/gagon[/face] (1st sing aor ind act) -> [face=SPIonic]a)gagei=n[/face] (aor inf act)
[face=SPIonic]h)/xa[/face] (1st sing perf ind act) -> [face=SPIonic]h)xe/nai[/face] (perf inf act)
[face=SPIonic]h)=gmai[/face] (1st sing perf ind mid/pass) -> [face=SPIonic]h)=xqai[/face] (perf inf mid/pass)
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Postby medea » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:57 am

so great :lol:

thank u Democritus.

Which greek text are u reading now?
Are u interested in Aristotle?
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Postby nefercheprure » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:40 pm

Paul wrote:...
nefercheprure wrote:it is impossible for a word to start with a rough breathing and a vowel immediately followed by an aspirated consonant. (A rule of no known exceptions, hence very useful.)


Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but what of:

[face=SPIonic]e(fqo/j[/face]
[face=SPIonic]h(/fqh[/face]
[face=SPIonic]h(=xi[/face]

Not to mention the name Hephaestus?
...


This rule works well for [face=SPIonic]e)/xw[/face] (< *[face=SPIonic](EX-W[/face] < *[face=SPIonic]SEX-W[/face]) fut. [face=SPIonic]e(/cw[/face]

As for [face=SPIonic]e(fqo/j[/face]:
the word [face=SPIonic]a)pefqo/j[/face]
suggests that there is spiritus lenis. On the other hand LSJ explicitly mentions: ``by dissimilation for [face=SPIonic]a)/fefqos[/face].''

The byzantinian codices should be consulted (as the oldest authority). And even then the result might be inconclusive. A positive evidence would be written spirutus asper. An even stronger evidence would be change of [face=SPIonic]t[/face] > [face=SPIonic]q[/face], [face=SPIonic]p[/face] > [face=SPIonic]f[/face], and [face=SPIonic]k[/face] > [face=SPIonic]x[/face] in preceding preposition or [face=SPIonic]ou)k[/face]
A negative evidence would be the negation of those two.

As for [face=SPIonic]h(=xi[/face]:
it is an epic form. I am not sure whether the rule applies to epic as well.

Names could be a special case.

And of course I might err. Or LSJ might err. (look for [face=SPIonic]i)xqu/j[/face] and [face=SPIonic]ixqu=j[/face] in LSJ (big) and LS (middle), only one form is deemed correct)


I did not know those exceptions.

LSJ = Liddell Scott Jones
LS = Liddell Scott
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