Paradigm shift

[bingley]

When I was at school, declensions all went <br />Nominative<br />Vocative<br />Accusative<br />Genitive<br />Dative<br />Ablative (for Latin)<br /><br />but now they've been changed to:<br />Nominative<br />Genitive<br />Dative<br />Accusative<br />(Ablative)<br />Vocative<br /><br />Why? It's very confusing.

[Carola]

Well, we are still learning the "old" order of:<br />Nominative<br />Vocative<br />Accusative<br />Genitive<br />Dative<br />Ablative <br /> in our Latin. I think it depends on where your textbooks come from - would I be wrong in thinking the genitive 2nd way is from some US texbooks and the Voc. 2nd is from English textbooks? It's just one of those things, like spelling "cheque" or "check" that we have to learn to live with. I find that having to watch out for these differences makes me remember the endings a lot better!

[Emma_85]

i've alway learned latin like this:<br /><br />Nominative<br />Genitive<br />Dative<br />Accusative<br />Ablative<br />(Vocative)<br /><br />i didn't know there was an old way to learn latin.<br /><br />but i think the new way makes more sense, because of course you need to have the nominative first, and gen. in 2. place makes sense, as you can tell what declination it is if you know the gen.<br />so in the vocabulary we always had to learn the nom. and gen. of a word.<br />don't know about the next two, but maybe they wanted to seperate the dative and the ablative, some beginners might have been confused?<br />but the ablative has so many functions and is so strange that it makes sense at the end.<br /><br />we totally left out the vocative, as our teacher said there's no point in learning it, we'll recognise it when we come across it (which is very true). in the grammar books it was always right at the end, because they knew that most teachers just leave it out, probably.

[bingley]

I think as Carola says it must be a geographic thing, the US being different from everyone else.<br /><br />Ablative at the end makes sense, because it's there in Latin but not in Greek.<br /><br />Having the vocative second makes sense (to me) because it gives a nice rhythm to neuters, especially second declension.<br /><br />Just try chanting bellum bellum bellum belli bello bello to yourself a few times and you'll see what I mean.<br /><br />

[Milito]

I think it depends on the book you first use, too. Wheelock uses the<br /><br />Nominative<br />Genitive<br />Dative<br />Accusative<br />Ablative<br />(Vocative) <br /><br />approach, which I taught myself to remember according to the line "No Good Dromadary Accepts Abuse (Voluntarily)". <br /><br />Moreland and Fleischer uses the same approach, but another book I ran into recently (Bennett?) uses a different order, which I found very disconcerting......<br /><br />Kilmeny

[mariek]

[quote author=Milito link=board=3;threadid=284;start=0#1786 date=1058881146]<br />... approach, which I taught myself to remember according to the line "No Good Dromadary Accepts Abuse (Voluntarily)".[/quote]<br /><br />That's rather clever. <br /><br />What I want to know is how you all learn the tables. Do you do Sing & Plur of NOM, then Sing & Plur of GEN, etc? Or do you go down the line of all Sing (NOM, GEN, ... , VOC), and then go through all the Plur (NOM, GEN, ..., VOC)?<br /><br />So do you do this :<br /><br /> domina, dominae, dominae, dominärum, dominae, dominïs, dominam, dominäs, dominä, dominïs<br /><br />Or do you do this :<br /><br /> domina, dominae, dominae, dominam, dominä, dominae, dominärum, dominïs, dominäs, dominïs<br /><br />

[Emma_85]

the second way. i've always learned all the sing. and then all the pl. forms. same for greek. <br />again it depends which book you use, i suppose, and which teachers you had (i my case no difference, as my teachers where involved in the writing of the books.)<br /><br />declensions are terrible in latin, just glad i haven't had to learn any latin declension tables in the last 4 years (but i must revise my latin, i must revise my latin, i must... lol, how many times do i have to say that to make myself do it? ).<br />

[benissimus]

I follow the second method as well. I find that the singulars are where you really must focus, because the plurals are repetitive to some degree in all declensions (and more so in 3rd-5th).

[Episcopus]

N<br />G<br />D<br />Acc.<br />Abl.<br />(Voc.)<br />(Loc.)<br /><br />*bangs hand on table <br />/cough BLD

[benissimus]

Maybe you should request your rank be changed to BLD Zealot

[bingley]

>:(<br />Domina, domina, dominam, dominae, dominae, domina.<br />Dominae, dominas, dominarum, dominis, dominis

[mariek]

[quote author=bingley link=board=3;threadid=284;start=0#1842 date=1058920051]<br /> >:(<br />Domina, domina, dominam, dominae, dominae, domina.<br />Dominae, dominas, dominarum, dominis, dominis<br />[/quote]<br />Putö multitudine superäris! ;D<br />(I think you're outnumbered!) ??? <br />

[ingrid70]

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=284;start=0#1844 date=1058923001]<br />[quote author=bingley link=board=3;threadid=284;start=0#1842 date=1058920051]<br /> >:(<br />Domina, domina, dominam, dominae, dominae, domina.<br />Dominae, dominas, dominarum, dominis, dominis<br />[/quote]<br />Putö multitudine superäris! ;D<br />(I think you're outnumbered!) ??? <br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Puto est Britannicus .<br /><br />Ingrid (quae est Batava)<br /><br />Modified: eheu, sum femina (last time I checked)

[bingley]

Britannicus sum sed domus mea in urbe Batavia (quae nunc Jakarta appellatur) est.

[Episcopus]

[quote author=bingley link=board=3;threadid=284;start=0#1866 date=1058974198]<br />Britannicus sum sed domus mea in urbe Batavia (quae nunc Jakarta appellatur) est.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />mater mea dicit me esse Britannicus sed venio ex Armenia patria antiqua. Britanniam non amo quia populi sunt stupidi et episcopi sui praedam feminarum non amant <br /><br /><br />