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This Must Be Settled.

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Agree or Disagree. We cannot know anything about physical reality, which is patterns of energy in the universe at points in time, with absolute certainty. We can only know with absolute certainty our mental realities.

Agree
9
53%
Disagree
8
47%
 
Total votes : 17

This Must Be Settled.

Postby threewood14 » Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:48 pm

I think many of us would agree that we cannot know anything about the physical world with absolute certainty. We can only know our mental realities with absolute certainty. We have to come to conclusions about this though.
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Postby klewlis » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:40 pm

Why do we have to come to a conclusion?


I agree with the first statement but not with the second. Therefore, I am withholding my vote. :)
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Postby threewood14 » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:49 pm

Maybe I should have left the 2nd part out. The 1st sentence was the main point anyway.
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Postby benissimus » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:54 pm

Your polls always seem to do that :P I voted no because I am not sure we can even know our own mental perceptions for certain
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Postby threewood14 » Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:41 am

That is very interesting. However, I must ask if you agree with the physical reality uncertainty part.

Don't make fun of me! :cry: Just kidding :lol:
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Re: This Must Be Settled.

Postby mercutio » Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:45 am

threewood14 wrote:I think many of us would agree that we cannot know anything about the physical world with absolute certainty. We can only know our mental realities with absolute certainty. We have to come to conclusions about this though.


Can your mental reality change physical reality? Why?
Can physical reality change your mental reality? Why?
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Postby threewood14 » Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:34 am

Can your mental reality change physical reality? Why?
Can physical reality change your mental reality? Why?


I never said that.
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Postby Pete » Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:04 am

We cannot know anything about physical reality, which is patterns of energy in the universe at points in time, with absolute certainty.


So you assume as true that physical reality is "patterns of energy in the universe." It's nice to see that you think you know that. You also assume that patterns exist. You also assume that energy exists. You also assume that there is a universe. You assume that time exists. You assume that points of time can be analyzed and distinguished.

For someone who is so absolutely positive that no definite knowledge exists... in order to make your point, you assume a lot of things to be incontrovertibly true.

But wait, I know what you will say... you know your assumptions by probability.

If you claim that you do not know these things for certain, but only by probability, then you must admit that there is a chance that you are wrong. This is inescapable. And if you are wrong, then we CAN know things about "physical reality."


NOW I SUMMARIZE:

You must decide whether you know your assumptions for sure, or not for sure. There is no third choice. These are your two options.

1. If you know your assumptions for sure, then you already wrong because you have definite knowledge about the physical world.

or

2. If you do not know your assumptions for sure, but only by probability, then you must admit that there is a chance that you are wrong.


---------

You must choose one of these options. This dichotomy, as such, has only two options. Option 1 makes you contradict yourself. Option 2 makes you admit that your theory may be right, or may be wrong, and you will never know and neither shall we. So if that is your theory, why should I vote for it?

------------

In other words,

Option 1 entails that we CAN know about the physical world with 100% certainty.

Option 2 entails that there is still a CHANCE that we really CAN know about the physical world with 100% certainty.
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Postby blue » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:42 am

benissimus wrote:I voted no because I am not sure we can even know our own mental perceptions for certain
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Postby threewood14 » Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:38 pm

Interesting. But if I didn't assume anything, this claim would have no meaning in the first place. And also, I am not absolutely certain that I am right. However, I think I am. I would go with your 2nd option since its true. Plus, if I didn't assume anything at all, then what would be there to talk to about?
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Postby Pete » Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:50 pm

I agree, you have to go with option 2, and you have to assume things to make a theory. But are you sure that you see the difference? We cannot be 100% sure that we can be 100% sure about the physical world. But there is still a CHANCE that we can be 100% sure about it.
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Postby copain » Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:22 pm

    I think it is true that we are not able to reveal the true nature of the thinks,because we have only our sensens to get in contact with this world, but in what amount are we unable to realise the true nature of the thinks we perceive ?
    To your second statement I agree more. But by and large I tend more to agree with you, than to disagree.
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