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Apologia Socratis: translations

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Apologia Socratis: translations

Postby Carolus Raeticus » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:14 am


I am wrapping up my transcription of "Apologia Socratis", a Latin version of the Apology of Socrates. I also transcribed an English introduction which contains a few Greek sentences I need your help with. Most are passages from Plato, and I am having difficulty finding translations.

I use the following Project Gutenberg-editions for the Plato-sentences:

I would like to add Transcriber's Notes which give a translation of these Greek sentences and words. I seem to be able to find the respective passages, but not the exact sentence/translation of the one cited in the Introduction (see this Archive.org-page).


"The accusers of Socr. were three: Meletus, Anytus, and Lyco: see espec. Apol. 23 E. Meletus is also mentioned by Plato in the Euthyphro 2 BC as ἀνὴρ νέος καὶ ἀγνὼς, τετανόφριξ καὶ οὐ πάνυ εὐγένειος, ἐπίγρυπος δέ..."

This sentence seems to refers to when Socrates says: "SOCRATES: A young man who is little known, Euthyphro; and I hardly know him: his name is Meletus, and he is of the deme of Pitthis. Perhaps you may remember his appearance; he has a beak, and long straight hair, and a beard which is ill grown. "

But the writer of the Introduction does not seem to cite the Greek passage verbatim (at least when comparing his text with that of a Loeb-edition). What is the translation of it? Also, it does not seem to be "2 BC" but rather "1 B" (although the Perseus-edition does not even have a section "1").


"Meletus, however, presented the indictment which was hung up in the portico before the office of the ἄρχων βασιλεύς</span> (hence περὶ τὴν τοῦ βασιλέως στοάν</span> Euth. 2 A)."

This refers to the following part: "EUTHYPHRO: Why have you left the Lyceum, Socrates? and what are you doing in the Porch of the King Archon? Surely you cannot be concerned in a suit before the King, like myself?" Here it probably should be "1 A" instead of "2 A".


"According to the Schol. on Apol. 18, Meletus was τραγψδίας φαῦλος ποιητής..."

I do not know what this refers to. "Schol." seems to be some commentary. What does the Greek mean?


"Meletus was ... a statement also made by the Schol. on Aristoph. Frogs 1302: but it seems certain that we have here an error on the part of the Scholiasts who were led by Plato's words ὑπὲρ τῶν ποιητῶν ἀχφόμενος to identify the accuser of Socr. with the poet mentioned by Aristophanes l. c., where he says that Euripides borrowed a good deal of his poetry..."

This seems to refer to the following passage: "SOCRATES: And do you really believe that the gods fought with one another, and had dire quarrels, battles, and the like, as the poets say, and as you may see represented in the works of great artists? The temples are full of them; and notably the robe of Athene, which is carried up to the Acropolis at the great Panathenaea, is embroidered with them. Are all these tales of the gods true, Euthyphro?" (6 B according to a Perseus-edition).


}"Anytus must have classed Socr. with the Sophists, and his opinion of them may be gathered from Plato, Meno 91 B, where Socr. says, οἶσθα δήπου καὶ σὺ ὅτι οῦτοι εἰσὶν οἵους οἱ ἄνθρωποι καλοῦσι σοφιστάς, and Anytus answers, and Anytus answers, Ήράκλεις, εὐφήμει, ῶ Σώκρατες μηδένα τῶν συγγενῶν μήτε οἰκείων μήτε φίλων μήτε ἀστῶν μήτε ξένων, τοιαύτη μανία λάβοι ὥστε παρὰ τούτους ἐλφόντα λωβηφῆναι, ἐπεὶ οῦτοί γε φανερά ἐστι λώβη τε καὶ διαφθορà τῶν συγγιγνομένων."

The first Greek sentence seems to refer to the passage where it says: "SOCRATES: You surely know, do you not, Anytus, that these are the people whom mankind call Sophists?".
The second one must mean "ANYTUS: By Heracles, Socrates, forbear! I only hope that no friend or kinsman or acquaintance of mine, whether citizen or stranger, will ever be so mad as to allow himself to be corrupted by them; for they are a manifest pest and corrupting influence to those who have to do with them."


"The cause of Socr. was what was technically styled ἀγὼν τιμητός, i.e., after the defendant was pronounced guilty by the judges, the punishment for his offence was left to them to fix; but both the prosecutor and the defendant were called upon to propose such a punishment (τιμᾶσφαι) as they considered fit for the offence. The punishment proposed by Meletus was death; the one proposed by Socr. may be learned from the Apology."

Do these two terms (ἀγὼν τιμητός and τιμᾶσφαι) have direct translations?

Thanks for your help.

Carolus Raeticus
Sperate miseri, cavete felices.
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Re: Apologia Socratis: translations

Postby mwh » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:57 pm

1. The writer has collapsed the descriptive epithets. In τετανόφριξ καὶ οὐ πάνυ εὐγένειος, ἐπίγρυπος δέ... he’s converted accusatives to nom. for grammatical consistency.
Should be τετανόθριξ with theta.
The ref. should be 2B (or 2b). The text of the dialogue starts on p.2 of Stephanus’ (Henri Étienne’s) 16th-cent. ed. That remains the standard reference system.
2. 2A is correct.
3. “Schol.” is Scholiast or Scholium.
τραγῳδίας with omega + iota subscript.
“a bad tragic poet”
4. ἀχθόμενος with theta (I presume).
Same φ/θ error in next two passages, as well as first.
5. needs proofreading.

That should get you some of the way.
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Re: Apologia Socratis: translations

Postby Carolus Raeticus » Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:08 pm


I have created a temporary version (html, ca. 77 kb) in which I highlighted in red the Greek passages (transcribed to my best knowledge, unfortunately it's all cuneiform to me ;-)) contained in the "Introduction".

Could you please have one last look at them (and my respective footnotes). If there are no serious blunders I will use the "Introduction" as is (I will do one last proofreading run on the Latin text).


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Re: Apologia Socratis: translations

Postby jeidsath » Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:36 pm

Looks pretty good to me, although I didn't compare against the original. You have the same accentuation errors as from the previous thread though:

Ήράκλεις -- Starts with a vowel, so there should be a rough breathing at the beginning, not an acute accent. Ἡράκλεις
οῦτοι -- Starts with a vowel, so there needs to be a breathing as well as the circumflex. οὗτοι
ῶ -- Same, but with a smooth breathing instead. ὦ.
οῦτοί -- οὗτοί
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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Re: Apologia Socratis: translations

Postby Carolus Raeticus » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:20 pm

Thank you!

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