I can't find any articular Demonstratives in the NT and so far none of the grammars I've looked at discuss that use. Are there any such uses in other koine, attic, et al writings and if so what would be their signifigance?
I'm comparing the uses of autos and the demonstratives
Articular Demonstratives
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Re: Articular Demonstratives
I'm not familiar with the term "articular demonstrative". What is it?Geoff wrote:I can't find any articular Demonstratives in the NT and so far none of the grammars I've looked at discuss that use. Are there any such uses in other koine, attic, et al writings and if so what would be their signifigance?
I'm comparing the uses of autos and the demonstratives
First say to yourself what you would be; then do what you need to do. ~Epictetus
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oh!
Wallace says:
"The article is used with the demonstratives in predicate position to indicate attributive function. Demonstratives cannot stand in attributive position (e.g., between the article and noun). If they are related to an anarthrous noun, they function independently, as pronouns. Only when they are in predicate position to an articular noun can demonstratives be considered dependent and attributive." (p241)
I don't know why it *cannot* be used in the attributive position, or whether that applies to classical as well... perhaps someone else here can shed some light.
Wallace says:
"The article is used with the demonstratives in predicate position to indicate attributive function. Demonstratives cannot stand in attributive position (e.g., between the article and noun). If they are related to an anarthrous noun, they function independently, as pronouns. Only when they are in predicate position to an articular noun can demonstratives be considered dependent and attributive." (p241)
I don't know why it *cannot* be used in the attributive position, or whether that applies to classical as well... perhaps someone else here can shed some light.
First say to yourself what you would be; then do what you need to do. ~Epictetus
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I don't think that Luke 22:23 is an example of a demonstrative in an attributive position.
[size=150]καὶ αὐτοὶ ἤρξαντο συζητεῖν πρὸς ἑαυτοὺς τὸ τίς ἄρα εἴη ἐξ αὐτῶν ὁ τοῦτο μέλλων πράσσειν[/size].
ὁ and τοῦτο don't refer to the same thing. The one is masc. the other neut.
I think that τοῦτο is a substantive here meaning, this thing ie, the betrayal.
ὁ maybe refers to τίς ? So that it becomes:"....the one who....
I have no idea what to do with τὸ. Does it go with τοῦτο?
[size=150]καὶ αὐτοὶ ἤρξαντο συζητεῖν πρὸς ἑαυτοὺς τὸ τίς ἄρα εἴη ἐξ αὐτῶν ὁ τοῦτο μέλλων πράσσειν[/size].
ὁ and τοῦτο don't refer to the same thing. The one is masc. the other neut.
I think that τοῦτο is a substantive here meaning, this thing ie, the betrayal.
ὁ maybe refers to τίς ? So that it becomes:"....the one who....
I have no idea what to do with τὸ. Does it go with τοῦτο?
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I agree with youBert wrote:I don't think that Luke 22:23 is an example of a demonstrative in an attributive position.
The ὁ goes with μέλλων :
ὁ μέλλων = "the one who is (or : was) on the point to..."
In my mind, this τὸ makes the indirect question a kind of substantive : they ask the (question) "who would it be"I have no idea what to do with τὸ. Does it go with τοῦτο?