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BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

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BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby mariek » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:17 pm

<br />I just wanted to check whether my translation of this is correct. We've just learned that adjectives agree with their noun, and we've learne about apposition.<br /><br />#9 : Mali servi equum bonum Marci domini necant.<br /><br />I originally translated :<br /><br /> The bad servants of Marcus, the Lord, kill the good horse.<br /><br />But I'm not sure whether the translation might be :<br /><br /> The bad servants kill the good horse of Marcus, the Lord.<br /><br /><br />mali servi = bad servants, NOM<br />equum bonum = the good horse, ACC S<br />necant = to kill, VERB PL<br /><br />Marci = Marcus, GEN S of the bad servants because the ending -i matches the ending in "mali servi"?<br /><br />If it were "the horse of Marcus", would it be "equum bonum Marcum" ?<br /><br />
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby Episcopus » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:34 pm

I think it would be 'bonum marci equum'<br /><br />but I am badly unsure about that ;D<br /><br />The bad servants of Marcus, the Lord, kill the good horse<br />=you went for the much less obvious one there, I'm not sure it's right though! I've heard of adjectives being seperated from noun for emphasis but ... I don't know.<br /><br />The bad servants kill the good horse of Marcus, the Lord.<br />=how I read it ;D<br /><br />Mali servi equum bonum Marci domini necant.<br /><br />Could this also be, "The bad servant's good horse do Marcuses, the Lords, kill"? <br /><br />
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby benissimus » Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:14 pm

[quote author=mariek link=board=3;threadid=268;start=0#1582 date=1058555823]<br /><br /><br />#9 : Mali servi equum bonum Marci domini necant.<br /><br />I originally translated :<br /><br /> The bad servants of Marcus, the Lord, kill the good horse.<br /><br />But I'm not sure whether the translation might be :<br /><br /> The bad servants kill the good horse of Marcus, the Lord.<br /><br />Prefer the second one, as the genitive is placed closer to the noun which it describes (generally).<br /><br /><br /><br />mali servi = bad servants, NOM<br />equum bonum = the good horse, ACC S<br />necant = to kill, VERB PL<br /><br />Marci = Marcus, GEN S of the bad servants because the ending -i matches the ending in "mali servi"?<br /><br />If it were "the horse of Marcus", would it be "equum bonum Marcum" ?<br /><br /> Genitive is nothing like an adjective. Think of it as placing "Marcus's horse". It's a possessive, not an adjective.<br /><br /><br /><br />[/quote]
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby mariek » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:46 am

Prefer the second one, as the genitive is placed closer to the noun which it describes (generally).<br />
<br />I guess I was trying to make it the sentence more difficult than it really was. And I was thrown off by seeing so many words with the same -i ending (viz. mali, servi, et Marci).<br /><br />I'll have to work on differentiating the Genitive from an Adjective.<br /><br />Back to the question of using -que as "and". Can you still use it for linking three words together like this :<br /><br /> English : A, B and C.<br /> Latin : A, B C-que.<br />
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby benissimus » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:05 am

Hmm, now that you mention it, I think -que specifically joins no more than two words. You can, however, use it in a list if it is only joining two of the items:<br /><br />i.e. Puellae et pueri familiaque.<br /><br />As you can see, it breaks up redundancy where in English it would seem rather bland if you kept saying the same word "and".
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby Episcopus » Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:07 pm

Mali servi equum bonum Marci domini necant.<br /><br />Could this also be, "The bad servant's good horse do Marcuses, the Lords, kill"? <br /><br /><br />Does this work!!?
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby ingrid70 » Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:12 pm

[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=268;start=0#1612 date=1058616421]<br />Mali servi equum bonum Marci domini necant.<br /><br />Could this also be, "The bad servant's good horse do Marcuses, the Lords, kill"? <br /><br /><br />Does this work!!? <br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />I assume you use Marci as the subject of the sentence? It's grammatically possible, but I don't think the Romans would use it. It's too far-fetched, and they did write to be understood. <br /><br />Ingrid
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby Episcopus » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:24 pm

yay thanks Ingrid ;)<br /><br />I am proud of that!<br /><br />I'd question the 'Romans wrote to be understood' theory!!
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby ingrid70 » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:14 pm

Hmm, it might seem they didn't want to be understood if you make your first attempt at reading them. Bit like James Joyce, <br /><br />"I've put in so many enigmas and puzzles [in Ulysses] that it will keep the professors busy for centuries arguing over what I meant, and that's the only way of insuring one's immortality." <br /><br />I just don't think literary criticism was as well established in Roman times (but I stand to be corrected on this).<br /><br />Maybe I was thinking of a 19th century Dutch writer (pseudonym: multatuli, to stay on the topic of Latin), who said: I want to be read.<br /><br />Ingrid
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby mariek » Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:02 am

[quote author=Episcopus link=board=3;threadid=268;start=0#1612 date=1058616421]<br />Mali servi equum bonum Marci domini necant.<br />Could this also be, "The bad servant's good horse do Marcuses, the Lords, kill"? <br />Does this work!!? [/quote]<br /><br />Hey, that's an interesting slant I never thought of. So you're assuming that there are two or more Lords who are all named Marcus.
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby benissimus » Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:49 am

It's possible, but how often do you use names in the plural?
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Re:BLD Ex82I Pg35 #9

Postby Episcopus » Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:52 pm

:D<br /><br />anna-kournikõvae
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