Paul Derouda wrote:Ιt's Stefan Hagel's reconstruction of the song of Ares and
Aphrodite.
Thanks for sharing that!
Paul Derouda wrote:1. I think it simply means that Athene is disguised as a
referee of some sort, the person who is in charge of marking the
throws with pegs or something and of measuring whose throw was
best. It's not that she cheated, it's just that she was acting as the
person who was best placed to evaluate how far Odysseus threw, so that
disguised as the referee she was also naturally the first to comment
upon it.
That's a relief
Paul Derouda wrote:4. This has troubled many people before you. I guess you could
call it an epexegetical infinitive, I suppose, I'm not very good with
this sort of terminology. You could look at Peter Jones' review of
Garvie's (in my opinion very good) Green-and-Yellow, which has a
discussion of this passage and Garvie's treatment of it. (You can read
3 articles at JStor for free every 14 days – which you probably know
already...). Deilos doesn't really mean "evil", it's more like
"worthless", "good for nothing".
So if we translated also ἐγγυάασθαι it would give, in bad English,
"the pledges [made on behalf] of the worthless are worthless for
accepting" (Garvie's interpretation) or "the pledges [made] by the
worthless are worthless for accepting" (Jones'
interpretation).
I feel more agree with Peter Jones' treatment. It is a brief review,
so he had no place enough to mention his reasons, but what do you
think about this: isn't καί giving a clue of which is the correct
interpretation? If we take "the pledges [made] by the worthless", we
can explain καί saying "even the pledges [as well as the other things
made by the worthless]", but if we take Garvies' "the pledges [made on
behalf] the worthless", καί sounds odd: "even the pledges [as well as
the other things made on behalf the worthless".
It helps me to translate thus: the things of the worthless men are
worthless (δειλαὶ τοι δειλῶν), even their pledges (γε καὶ ἐγγύαι).
Qimmik wrote:6. χυμένη -- it's explained as an athematic 2d aorist
passive; the more usual aorist passive would be χυθεῖσα.
All this time I was with the idea that second aorist passive was
formed in the same way as first aorist passive, except that the second
didn't add θ. But now I'm confused, because χυμένη and χυθεῖσα have
different endings.
Paul Derouda wrote:7. Hey, I'm not going to ruin your suspense by
telling what is going to happen later... But what do you think, btw –
will Odysseus ever get home?
Qimmik wrote:Maybe, maybe not.
I didn't hear anything of that.
Qimmik wrote:7. ἰήσεται -- this is a short-vowel aorist
subjunctive, I think (it could also be future indicative): so that not even Poseidon [ἐνοσίχθων] could heal your
eye.
I've taken it as a purpose clause with the shortened subjunctive, but
it has sounded a bit strange to me that the purpose is "that not even
Poseidon could heal your eye" instead of "that not even Poseidon could
bring you back to life". But reading now your translation and
considering it again, I think that one thing
implies the other, so it is not illogical after all, and he was
answering to Polyphemus' "αὐτὸς δ’, αἴ κ’ ἐθέλῃσ’, ἰήσεται", so it is
enough for me.
Paul Derouda wrote:I think ἔνι stands for ἔνεισιν – "nor are there
shipwrights there"
Ok, I had taken ἔνι with νεῶν (with the anastrophe,
by the way), as νεῶν ἔνι τέκτονες. But with εἰσιν is clearly more
natural. If I would have not listen at the good counsel of Qimmik, then I
would ask now if the anastrophe applies when the verb in tmesis is
implicit in the sentence.