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Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

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Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby daivid » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:00 pm

My Pocket Oxford Classical Greek Dictionary is falling apart and I do like to have an alternative to online dictionaries to look up words.

I have been reasonably happy with it and it does have a slightly more modern flavor than the online dictionaries so I might well just get another of the same.

However, are there other dictionaries that have features/emphasis that the online ones don't have?
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby Qimmik » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:10 pm

I've used the intermediate L&S dictionary for 50+ years. My copy is falling apart, but I have another in reserve.

Advantages: Very extensive vocabulary covering all periods of ancient Greek; careful (though dated) scholarship; morphological information provided; authors identified; some entries are actually helpful glosses on specific passages of major authors (though unlike LSJ citations are not provided); easier to consult than LSJ.

Disadvantages: no English-Greek vocabulary; bulkier than the Pocket Oxford Classical Greek Dictionary.
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby Markos » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:55 pm

I like this one

http://www.amazon.com/Langenscheidts-Po ... dictionary

because it is super portable and you can look up words very quickly. I almost never come across a word I can't find in it. My Middle Liddel (which I love) also fell apart. I think these Langenscheidts are designed for more wear and tear.
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:15 pm

Qimmik wrote:I've used the intermediate L&S dictionary for 50+ years. My copy is falling apart, but I have another in reserve.

Advantages: Very extensive vocabulary covering all periods of ancient Greek; careful (though dated) scholarship; morphological information provided; authors identified; some entries are actually helpful glosses on specific passages of major authors (though unlike LSJ citations are not provided); easier to consult than LSJ.

Disadvantages: no English-Greek vocabulary; bulkier than the Pocket Oxford Classical Greek Dictionary.


I also use intermediate L&S all the time. I use it as a "front end" to LSJ. With digital-LSJs both in Diogenes and Perseus I rarely use my two copies of LSJ, since I have use a magnifier to read them. I also use Woodhouse Attic Vocabulary. For New Testament I use Danker's abbreviated 2nd ed as front end to his third edition which is a big book, also a large format print edition of Grimm-Thayer. Also have Autenrieth and Cunliffe on Homer. Cunliffe is better, but larger.

What I would really like but cannot find and if I could find would be not able to afford are dictionaries on specific authors, particularly for Attic Tragedy. I can see this would also be helpful for Plato and Aristotle. It took me decades to get used to LSJ and LS intermediate primarily because they cover such a vast range of time, genre and authors. Finding how Aeschylus uses a fairly common word can be real chore using hard copy. Much easier with hyper text in Perseus.
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby daivid » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:12 pm

Thank you for all your suggestions.

Is the intermediate L&S dictionary the same as Middle Liddel? If so how does it differ from the version available on Peseus?

At the moment I am thinking of going for the Langenscheidt dictionary on grounds of being light on the hand. But I would go for a more heavy weight dictionary if the advatages were sufficiently great to compensate for the weight,
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby Qimmik » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:31 am

"Is the intermediate L&S dictionary the same as Middle Liddel?"

Yes. (Liddell, that is.)

"If so how does it differ from the version available on Peseus?"

It's not an exercise in frustration.

You can actually use it to look up words. You don't need to know the correct accentuation or the right way to input words in a crude and counterintuitive Roman transcription. You can scan a number of words by eye to find the one you're looking for. You can see adjacent words.

And it has just about all the words you will ever need, along with morphological information, unless you're trying to read obscene papyri written by 13-year-olds.
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby rummy51 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:21 am

I would like to advise that recent publications of the Middle Liddell are rather poor. The text tends to be faded or blurry. I suggest you see one in person before purchasing rather than buying it online.

I considered buying one but stuck with my abbreviated Liddell (or little Liddell) when I saw how blurry the new copies were. I now use that, and if I can't find the word, look it up on Perseus.
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby Qimmik » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:31 am

Buy a used copy in good condition.
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby Qimmik » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:33 am

Buy a used copy in good condition. And be sure to avoid the knock-offs that don't come from OUP.

OUP is trying to keep the price down, but it's destroying classical studies in the process by producing unusable materials.

Perseus is riddled with errors.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=liddell+scott&sts=t&tn=intermediate
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby Victor » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:22 am

I'd echo what Qimmik has said in recommendation of the Intermediate Liddell. It's not always as complete as you need it to be, but it's the one you'll turn to most of the time when you're reading anything from the mainstream corpus, and as the years go by you become increasingly appreciative of how much it crams in rather than critical of what it leaves out. This is just as well, because although LSJ is always to hand if you really need it not many people seem comfortable with the way the entries in it are laid out, and even fewer aren't intimidated at least a little by its unwieldiness.

Beware of assuming that the Perseus Intermediate Liddell is the same animal as the paper version; compare the entry for σώζω in the two to see what I mean.

Woodhouse is undeservedly popular as an English-Greek lexicon; Frädersdorff/Arnold/Browne or Yonge are considerably more useful.
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby akhnaten » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:44 am

thanks for this discussion. hope it will quickly be relevant.
Qimmik, Sounds like you are suggesting buying used because older editions are of higher quality (binding, typesetting?), not just price. Is there a vague date when the OUP publishing declined--ie, should those published in the 90s also be avoided in favor of the 60s reprints?
Thank you.
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Re: Reccomeded Hard Copy Dictionaries

Postby daivid » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:42 pm

akhnaten wrote:thanks for this discussion. hope it will quickly be relevant.
Qimmik, Sounds like you are suggesting buying used because older editions are of higher quality (binding, typesetting?), not just price. Is there a vague date when the OUP publishing declined--ie, should those published in the 90s also be avoided in favor of the 60s reprints?
Thank you.

My new reprint Smyth "Greek Grammar" has extremely smudgy text. Distinguishing between rough and smooth breathings is especially difficult.
There has been a spate of reprints recently because small print runs are now viable. So long as the printer gets the print-ready files the unit cost per book is low. It seems to me that the problem is that the budget for the preparing print-ready files is consequently low -hence the poor results.

I would expect then that 90s reprints would have not have the problem. To be viable they would have to have had a larger print run so there would have been money to spare to get art word done nicely before they got to the printers.

And thanks to all who have answered this thread - now my purchase of a dictionary will be based on more than hoping to guess lucky.
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