the girl and her country

[incipio]

be kind,
i translated sentance c in chapter 2:
patria puellarum sine pecunia non valet.
the girl cannot leave her country without money.

so far its slow going but gratifying.

[benissimus]

be kind,
i translated sentance c in chapter 2:
patria puellarum sine pecunia non valet.
the girl cannot leave her country without money.

so far its slow going but gratifying.

A good attempt, but valet means "is well" not "leaves". Also, puellarum is a genitive and cannot be the subject of the verb. Patria is in the nominative and has to be the subject of the sentence.

[svaens]

grrrrr ..... i'd wished you'd gotten to a conclusion on this one! I've found the same sentence, and am trying to translate.

I figure it is :

(The father of the girls)
Patria puellarum

(without money)
sine pecunia

(isn't well)
non valet

So together, sounds like a bit of a proverb almost, but referring to the same 'girls in Wheellocks other examples:

The father of the girls isn't well without money. Or, it doesn't do for the father of these girls to be without money.. or something like that.

Can someone confirm??

[Slappo]

patria pellarum sine pecunia non valet

The father of the girls is not healthy (powerful, strong, influential, well, more loosely could be "is not in good health") without money.

Valeo as an imperative is like saying "goodbye" or "take care", and it has to do with being in good health.

I'd say
The father of the girls is not (able to be?) in good health without money.

[petitor]

"Patria" in this sentence is the noun "fatherland/homeland/country", as in dulce et decorum est pro patria mori - It is noble and glorious to die for one's country.

Hence, "The girls' country is not strong without money".

[svaens]

I WAS going to ask about 'Patria' ..... as

a) I was seeking a sentence that made sense. (with the word 'country' it no longer makes sense to me).
b) I knew the nominative of father is 'Pater' ... .so suspected that I was wrong...

I would think this is a mistake

The original sentence then should have been 'Pater puellarum sine pecunia non valet'.

[Kasper]

why doesn't it make sense? "the fatherland of the girls cannot be well without money", although rather textbookish, it makes perfect sense (e.g. consider the impending bankruptcy of the US). there is no mistake.

[svaens]

ok, so it could make some sort of sense...... except, really it has nothing to do with the girls.
you could just have well have written " the fatherland of the mice cannot be well without money".
Whereas, if it was the father of the girls...... well, then one begins to make the connection that girls are expensive to keep, and gives an 'extra' reason why this poor man needs money.

But of course, grammatically, there is no problem. It would just be nice to be able to read something in my learning, worth reading.

[Kasper]

It would just be nice to be able to read something in my learning, worth reading.

hehe yes of course! that's the problem with most textbooks isn't it? Just keep up the work and after you finish the grammar book you will gradually become able to read many things that very worthwhile.

[scottS]

So then is pecunia in the ablative case? I dont know that I understand why it is in the Ablative case if I am correct... Could someone maybe explain this sentence a bit more?

Cases are really throwing me for a loop

Scott

[Benedarius]

Yes, when you are using sine (sine pecunia), the thing that you are without (money in this case), is in the ablative.

[Einhard]

patria puellarum sine pecunia non valet.

"patria" (the fatherland, country etc) is the subject of the verb "valet" (valere-to be strong, powerfu, well). "non" makes the verb negative.

"puellarum" is the gen pl of puella (girl)

"sine" is without and is followed by an abl, "pecunia" means money and is in the ablative; hence, "without money"

Put them al together and you get:

The girls' country is not strong without money.

[dlb]

It would just be nice to be able to read something in my learning, worth reading.

Hey,
I have been studying Wheelocks for 1 year this past April and am now just starting Ch. #6. I understand your frustration w/ wanting to read anything. It takes some time but you will find that Latin is not an easy language to learn but it will keep you on you toes, keep your mind sharp, increase your curiousity about it (and other languages for that matter).
A suggestion: search around on the internet for Latin sites, like St. Louis Univ., and look for reading materials. It has helped me tremendously.
dlb
.