## Conjugation of thaptw

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

### Conjugation of thaptw

Thaptw: aorist passive etafhn (epsilon, tau, alpha, phi, eta, nu)

What's the explanation for this? The aspiration seems to have changed place.

Just guessing, I would say that the tau has dissimilated because of the phi. But why the phi? Perhaps it was expecting (or making the analogy with?) another theta aorist passive (luw etc), hence the aspiration?

Sorry if that sounds confused. I hope you get the general idea.

Thucydides

Thucydides
Textkit Fan

Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:46 pm
Location: Christ Church Oxford

The explanation is that originally both t and p were aspirated. With the formation of the present stem, the p lost its aspiration, so that there was no reason for the t to dissimilate. In the aorist stem, the aspiration of p was retained; the t then lost its aspiration.

I don't have references to any grammars (Smyth, Kühner, Sihler, Rix &c.) at the moment, but if you need them, I could look it up.

Ptolemaios
Ptolemaios
Textkit Neophyte

Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:15 am
Location: The Netherlands

This process Ptolemaios is describing is known as Grassman's Law, and applies to Greek and Sanskrit. When two aspirates follow one another, the first is unaspirated. However, when the -t- was added to the present stem, the final phi lost aspiration, so the theta remained at the beginning.

The same process accounts for the paradigm of "hair": [face=spionic]qri/c, trixo/j, h([/face].
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot

Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm

and the rough breathing on the future of [face=SPIonic]e1xw[/face].

~dave

whiteoctave
Textkit Enthusiast

Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:42 pm
Location: Cambridge

Hi,

original root [face=SPIonic]qaf[/face] + [face=SPIonic]t[/face] > [face=SPIonic]qapt[/face]. The initial aspirate is allowed to stand because the subsequent aspirate disappeared into the [face=SPIonic]pt[/face].

But Grassman's law operates in the 2d aorist passive giving [face=SPIonic]e)ta/fhn[/face] < [face=SPIonic]e)qa/fhn[/face].

There are cases where Grassman doesn't operate, e.g., 1st aorist passive, m-p perfect imperative and infinitive, respectively:

[face=SPIonic]e)qa/fqhn[/face]
[face=SPIonic]teqa/fqw[/face]
[face=SPIonic]teqa/fqai[/face]

Cordially,

Paul

Paul
Textkit Zealot

Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York

annis wrote: When two aspirates follow one another,

Otherwise, there would not be forms like [face=SPIonic]h)/xqhn[/face] from [face=SPIonic]a)/gw[/face] or [face=SPIonic]a)nh/fqw [/face] from [face=SPIonic]a)na/ptw [/face]

Skylax
Textkit Enthusiast

Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 8:18 am
Location: Belgium

Gosh, I didn't know you were all so interested in the dissimilation of aspirates! Thanks for your help.

The word "taphos" is further evidence of all this.

Another interesting case in trefw, actually from the stem "thref" as we see in the future...

-Thucydides

Thucydides
Textkit Fan

Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:46 pm
Location: Christ Church Oxford

Would anyone be interested in me writing up the relevant section from Sihler (Comparative Grammar of Latin and Greek) on Grassman's Law?

Thucydides
Textkit Fan

Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:46 pm
Location: Christ Church Oxford

Sihler paragr. 138, pp. 142-144.

Ptolemaios
Ptolemaios
Textkit Neophyte

Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:15 am
Location: The Netherlands