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Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

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Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby seminomadic » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:11 pm

... that "a regular verb of the first conjugation with a sequence of principal parts ending in -are, -avi, -atum.

However it would appear that csun website,

http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/prparts2.html

begs to differ, what with the fourth principal part being -atus for those same verbs that were listed as "regular" in the Latin-English vocabulary list in the back of Wheelock's. I've checked other web sites. Some say the 4th is -atum, some -atus. Who's right, and if they're both right, which should I memorize? I'm told to memorize the principal parts even before the meaning since Anglophones will have the least problem remembering the meaning. Which then should I memorize? -atus or -atum??

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby Victor » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:41 pm

A wholly satisfactory answer has already been given to you on the other forum where you're posting identical questions.
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Re: Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby Qimmik » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:11 pm

Intransitive verbs (those that don't accept a direct object as a complement) don't have the form ending in -us, which is a masculine passive participle, but they do have the form in -um, which is both a neuter passive participle that can be used in non-passive impersonal expressions and a form known as a gerund, which is a kind of verbal noun.

This is true of virtually all Latin verbs, not just first conjugation verbs.

The foregoing technical explanation is probably beyond your knowledge of Latin at this stage, but the key point is that some verbs--those that are intransitive--don't have the form in -us, so you are safer learning the form in -um. But it shouldn't be too much of a strain to remember that both forms exist for transitive, but not for intransitive, verbs.
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Re: Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby seminomadic » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:11 am

Qimmik wrote:The foregoing technical explanation is probably beyond your knowledge of Latin at this stage, but the key point is that some verbs--those that are intransitive--don't have the form in -us, so you are safer learning the form in -um. But it shouldn't be too much of a strain to remember that both forms exist for transitive, but not for intransitive, verbs.


Ok, that's the way I was memorizing them, so I'll stick with that. Thanks!
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Re: Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby seminomadic » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:13 am

Victor wrote: where you're posting identical questions.


This apparently irks you?
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Re: Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby Victor » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:35 am

seminomadic wrote:
Victor wrote: where you're posting identical questions.


This apparently irks you?

No, only your stark insensibility.
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Re: Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby seminomadic » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:49 am

Most people wouldn't find it starkly insensible to find out which sort of different response times not to mention helpful or snarky answers one might get from the various Latin forums available when just starting out.

My sympathies to you. I hope your hypertrophic sphincter doesn't cause too many other problems for you and those around you. Get well soon, Victor.
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Re: Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby Victor » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:53 am

Q.E.D.
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Re: Principal Parts - p.470 of Wheelock's says...

Postby adrianus » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:56 pm

I think this is an interesting sort of thing. Personally, it doesn't matter to me that someone asks the same question in different fora to hedge their bets but clearly it risks a reaction that is a response to being tested before being trusted, suspecting that something is not posed in good faith. I would just have linked to the response on the other forum because it was a good one. But you have only to read over already published pages to see what sort of forum this is and, for me, that would be a sufficient test. I think you gain by participating in whatever forum,—and even a wrong answer can be productive in giving rise to discussion and debate. I don't know how many times I've given an answer that was flawed but others here helped point out the problem, more often in an encouraging way, without being totally boring. (Of course, maybe I'm being boring now.)

Haec rerum mihi curae est. Meâ parte, id mihi non refert, eandem quaestionem altero in foro rogari ut supplex debitum securum praestet. Quod periculum facit ut is sine fide bonâ agere habeatur. De seminomadis epistulâ, eqo equidem responsum jam datum et perbonum alibi ostendissem. Sufficit, ut opinor, hoc situm perlegi ut natura eius sciatur. In quocumque foro, quoties contribues, toties proficies, etiamsi non bonum responsum primum recipies, quod saepe in corrigendo floreat mutatio sententiarum. Nescio quoties erraverim antequam alii lucem illuminaverunt, et modo qui evexit non taedente. (At forsit ego nunc taedia scribo!)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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