Textkit Logo

pushing my luck... does anyone mind...

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

pushing my luck... does anyone mind...

Postby ruruinthenight » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:12 am

I have a few (more) translations that I am struggling with. Although I'd love to post all my translations here for feedback (and mass correction!), I'll resist the urge, and stick to those that are troubling me the most. Here goes:

Latin -> English:
1. tandem quinta hora noctis puer rediit. mater irata est.

Finally, at (or by?) the fifth hour of night, the boy came back. Mother was angry.

I'm unsure as to how best convey 'quinta hora noctis'. It sounds clunky. I was tempted to translate 'at five in the evening', but without any decent knowledge of Roman time, I don't want to assume that this is what it means.

Similarly:
2. 'eece! tertia hora noctis redii'

'Look! I have returned at (or by?) the third hour of night.'

English -> Latin
3. For three hours Quintus stayed in the forum; he was waiting for Gaius.

tres horas Quintus in foro mansit; Gaium exspectabat erat.

My main concern here is the use of 'erat'. I'm still having trouble identifying when it is/not necessary. i.e. could I have instead translated simply: '...Gaium exspectabat'?

4. Quintus greeted him and said, 'I have waited for you for three hours.'

Quintus eum salutit et 'tres horas' inquit 'te exspectavi.'

Really unsure of when and where to use 'et'; should I instead simply translate: 'Quintus eum salutit, 'tres horas' inquit 'te exspectavi', OR 'Quintus eum salutit, et dixit 'tres horas te exspectavi.'

5. Gaius replied: 'On the way I saw a friend, who showed me his dog'.

Gaius respondit: 'on viam (or 'in viam?' OR 'inter viam'??) amicem vidi. quem me suus canem ostendit.

I have a sinking feeling about this entire translation...

6. We played with the dog. Then we climbed a tree. Don't be angry. I have arrived at last.

cum cane lusimus. deinde arborem ascendimus. Noli iratus/iratum es/esto. Ego tandem adveni.

I can't believe I'm struggling with iratus/iratum - but I just can't wrap my brain around this one. I'm confused because it seems like 'be angry' is behaving like an infinitive... Then I started thinking maybe it's (masculine) accusative -um... to be honest I'm completely lost. And then there's the 'es/esto', which, again, I'm not sure is either correct, or necessary.


Well, that's six of the trickiest for me. In my beginners world.
If anyone would be so kind as to offer their thoughts, I'd be really grateful. I may even send a fruit basket as thanks. Or draw a picture of one to scan in.

Thanks again
Amber
ruruinthenight
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:44 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: pushing my luck... does anyone mind...

Postby Qimmik » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:01 pm

1. This is correct. An article on Roman timekeeping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_timekeeping The fifth hour of the night would probably be around 11 pm in winter, but Roman hours varied with the seasons.

2. Correct. Probably "at" is better in English.

3. Erat is not merely unnecessary, it's wrong. Expectabat encodes all the necessary information as to voice, tense, number and person. It's not a periphrastic form.

4. Salutavit, not salutit. The two sentences with et are ok here, although Latin would probably use a participle for the first verb without et, e.g., Quintus eum salutans 'tres horas' inquit 'te exspectavi.

5. Gaius respondit: 'in via amicUm vidi qui [nominative because subject of relative clause] mihi [dative, indirect object of ostendit, not accusative] suum [must be accusative in agreement with canem] canem ostendit.

6. Noli requires an infinitive: Noli irasci. Irascor is a 3rd conjugation deponent, i.e., it's active in meaning but is conjugated with passive endings. Irasci is the present infinitive. (The perfect participle, iratus, happens to look like a 1st conjugation verb, but don't let that confuse you.)

That's all for now. Someone else can chime in with corrections or amplification.
Last edited by Qimmik on Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Qimmik
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1221
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:15 pm

Re: pushing my luck... does anyone mind...

Postby ruruinthenight » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:50 pm

[quote="Qimmik"]1. This is correct. An article on Roman timekeeping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_timekeeping The fifth hour of the night would probably be around 11 pm in winter, but Roman hours varied with the seasons.
Thank you!

2. Correct. Probably "at" is better in English.
Agreed.

3. Erat is not merely unnecessary, it's wrong. Expectabat encodes all the necessary information as to voice, tense, number and person. It's not a periphrastic form.
Thank you; I have struggled a bit with 'esse' and its use; I have finally made the distinction between its use, and, importantly, to not use it as an auxiliary verb.

4. Salutavit, not salutit. The two sentences with et are ok here, although Latin would probably use a participle for the first verb without et, e.g., Quintus eum salutans 'tres horas' inquit 'te exspectavi.
Thanks for picking up 'salutit' - had I looked more carefully, I'd have seen it looked wrong! Salutans: I hadn't considered!

5. Gaius respondit: 'in via amicUm vidi qui [nominative because subject of relative clause] mihi [dative, indirect object of ostendit, not accusative] suum [must be accusative in agreement with canem] canem ostendit.
It's feedback like this that cements my learning.

6. Noli requires an infinitive: Noli irasci. Irascor is a 3rd conjugation deponent, i.e., it's active in meaning but is conjugated with passive endings. Irasci is the present infinitive. (The perfect participle, iratus, happens to look like a 1st conjugation verb, but don't let that confuse you.)
Thank you - this all (unsurprisingly) makes great sense! Your feedback is extremely helpful.

Many thanks again - I wish I could comment further, but I'm still only just comprehending this, and I don't yet have the ability to have an in-depth discussion about the grammar. Hopefully one day I will.
Amber
ruruinthenight
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:44 am
Location: New Zealand


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bedwere, Godmy, Google Adsense [Bot], Paul Derouda, Phil-, Qimmik, RandyGibbons, Shenoute and 76 guests