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Dear A Good Latin Scholar

Postby partisan » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:27 am

Dear A Good Latin Scholar:
I am having trouble translating the first paragraph in 38 Latin Stories compiled by Wheelock. The title of the work is from the gallic wars and is on page 44, Chapter 24. If anyone can help me I would greatly appreciate it! THANKS!

Sincerely
Brian
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Postby klewlis » Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:12 am

could you post the paragraph and your attempted translation?
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Postby partisan » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:16 pm

Surely:
"Caesar, equitatu peraemisso, sex ligiones ducebat; post eas totius exercitus impedimenta collocaverat; equites nostri, flumine transito, cum hostium equitatu proelium commiseruent. Illi indentidem in silvas ad suos se recipiebant ac rursus ex silva in nostros impetum faciebant. Nostri tantum ad finem silvae insequi eos audebant. Interim legiones sex, ubi primum venereunt, armis despositis, castra munire coeperunt. Ubi prima inpedimenta nostri exercitus ab eis qui in silis latebant visa sunt, omnibus cum copiis provolaverunt impetumque in nostros equites fecerunt. Equitibus facile pulsis, incredibili celeritate ad flumen cucurrerunt. Itaque uno tempore et ad silvas et in flumine et in manibus nostris hostes videbanturn. Eadem celeritate ad nostra castra atque eos qui in labore occupati erant cucurrerunt." (Wheelock 44)
That is the paragrah I am having issues with... I've sucessfully translated the second paragraph (which is not shown here), but if anyone could help me with the translation of the above passage I would greatly appreciate it.! Thanks!
Sincerely,
Brian
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:20 pm

Hi Brian,

Welcome to Textkit. Please read the sticky concerning requesting help with translation. http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... php?t=1225

There are many talented people here who are all very willing to help you out - but we like to see learners take a stab at the problem first by putting their own translation up.

Post your translation and then explain what areas are giving you problems.

thanks,
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Postby partisan » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:26 pm

Here is my attempt:
Caesar, having sent his cavalry on before, followed close after them with all his forces. For as he was approaching the enemy, Caesar, according to his custom, led on; then the two legions which had been last raised closed the rear. The six legions which had arrived first, having measured out the work, began to fortify the camp. The latter being easily routed and thrown into confusion, the Nervii ran down to the river with such incredible speed that they seemed to be in the woods, the river, and close upon us almost at the same time. And with the same speed they hastened up the hill to our camp, and to those who were employed in the works.
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Postby whiteoctave » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:51 pm

Your translation seems to have deviated somewhat from the Wheelock Latin version and seems to be somewhat reminiscent of an abridged version of the translation on Perseus (which is of course dependent upon the original Latin); perhaps this is just coincidence. Nevertheless, a translation of the Latin you typed:

Caesar, having sent his cavalry ahead, was leading six legions; after these he had positioned together the supply trains of the whole army. Our cavalry, having crossed the river, had joined battle with the cavalry of the enemy. These repeatedly withdrew [lit. took themselves back] into the woods to their men and again made sally from the wood against our men. Our men dared to follow them as far as the end of the wood. Meanwhile, the six when they first arrived began to fortify the camp having put down their arms [here, as in other places, you miraculously translate the original BG not the Wheelock!]. When the foremost part of the supply train of our army was seen by those who were hiding in the wood, they flew forth with all their force and made sally [I can't get enough of that phrase!] against our cavalry. With these [lit.the cavalry] easily routed, they flocked together to the river with incredible. Therefore, at one time the enemy seemed to be at the woods, in the river and at our hands [is there an "esse" here in Wheelock?]. And with the same speed they ran [a rogue hill slips in here] to our camp and to those who were busy with the work.

I imagine praemisso and legiones should be in the first clause, indentidem should lose its first n, venereunt should lose the third e, despositis should lose its first s, inpedimenta should have its first n replaced for an m, silis is dying for a v, videbanturn has a suspicious paragogic n (i know these are all typos, but it was quite fun finding them.)

I really hope this helps,

~dave
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Postby partisan » Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:45 pm

dave, thankyou for your comments, I will be sure to post any other questions I have!

Sincerely
Brian
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Re: Dear A Good Latin Scholar

Postby emilyerose » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:01 pm

^^ This was helpful. I'm really struggling with the passage below, which I believe was also in the material partisan is studying. If anybody can help with this translation, I'd appreciate it. :|

Caesari omnia uno tempore erant agenda: vexillum proponendum erat, quod erat signum, cum ad arma concurrere oporteret; signum tuba dandum erat; a labore revocandi erant milites; acies paranda erat. Harum rerum magnam partem temporis brevitas et incursus hostium impediebat. Hi milites propter propinquitatem et celeritatem hostium nihil iam Caesaris imperium expectabant, sed per se quae videbantur administrabant.
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Re: Dear A Good Latin Scholar

Postby adrianus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:49 pm

And what does your attempt look like?
Et quomodo tu vertis?
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Dear A Good Latin Scholar

Postby emilyerose » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:08 pm

It looks like this:
Each was about to be driven to Caesar at one time: the flag was about to be displayed, which was an indication when it was required for the army to run; the trumpet was the sign to be given; the military effort was to be called back; the battle line was to be prepared. Shortness of time and the enemy to be ran into were greatly hindering part of this event. These soldiers already were expecting nothing of Caesar’s command on account of the nearness and speed of the enemy, but they were managing by means of that which they were seeing.

Pitiful, I know. :P Any corrections are always appreciated, but if you could put explanations with your correction, that would be best. Correction doesn't help me at all unless you explain why. Thanks. :)
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Re: Dear A Good Latin Scholar

Postby adrianus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:54 pm

You should study the gerundive and then try the passage.
Gerundivum tibi noscendum est. Postea locum vertas.
"Caesari omnia uno tempore erant agenda" = "Caesar had to do everything at the same time." from "To Caesar all things at the same time had to be done/performed."

Look up concurrere in a dictionary.
In dictionarium "concurrere" inquiras.
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Dear A Good Latin Scholar

Postby emilyerose » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:09 pm

Study gerundives...gotcha. Did you notice anything else lacking?
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Re: Dear A Good Latin Scholar

Postby adrianus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:21 pm

Fraudare non est versionem illius operis Caesaris anglicam consultare.
It's not a cheat to look at an English translation of Caesar's Gallic Wars (2.20) to learn.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0001%3Abook%3D2%3Achapter%3D20
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Dear A Good Latin Scholar

Postby Σεβαστός » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:34 pm

emilyerose wrote:It looks like this:
Each was about to be driven to Caesar at one time: the flag was about to be displayed, which was an indication when it was required for the army to run; the trumpet was the sign to be given; the military effort was to be called back; the battle line was to be prepared. Shortness of time and the enemy to be ran into were greatly hindering part of this event. These soldiers already were expecting nothing of Caesar’s command on account of the nearness and speed of the enemy, but they were managing by means of that which they were seeing.

Pitiful, I know. :P Any corrections are always appreciated, but if you could put explanations with your correction, that would be best. Correction doesn't help me at all unless you explain why. Thanks. :)


Watch out for "ad arma" too when you've looked up concurro. labore does not agree with milites. Incursus is a noun. videor in the passive usually means seem, and probably "seems good" here. Hope this helped :).
hic Graeca doctrina ore tenus exercitus animum bonis artibus non induerat.
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